Why the BJP Lost Bihar?

Many think that Modi and the BJP lost Bihar because the RSS chief made a…

Many think that Modi and the BJP lost Bihar because the RSS chief made a confusing comment on the issue of Reservation Policy. Many attribute this statement was based on motives of internal warfare within the Sangh Parivar. Whatever be the grain of truth in this and whatever be the contribution of some hotheads making anti-Muslim statements, the real reason for the BJP’s defeat is nothing else than the hopes of a new Mandalization that Nitish-Lalu duo was able to raise in the minds of the people of Bihar.

Reservation cemented the public support to Nitish-Lalu-combine, which was in any case an unashamed and blatant Union of reservationists for the OBC.

Let us face the truth that combined with the Muslim support it created an isolation of the Savaranas which was bound to be in minority and hence a predestined loss for the BJP combine, even  if the RSS chief had kept silent on the Reservation. It is NOT that the chief spoke at a wrong time, it is that the RSS and the BJP were not able to see the ability of the Mandal Ghost to rise and seize power at the most unexpected moments. The same mistake was made when UP was lost two decades ago by neglecting the leaders of the OBCs, when Kalyan Singh and Uma Bharati were given short shrift by senior leaders.

Reservations in Indian political discourse and social sphere have been managed by the Cambridge-Columbia neo-colonizers. This strategy though it began in India with the British rulers in the 19 century to alienate Muslims from the Hindus by emphasizing the Arab and Central Asian inheritance of the Muslims (which had significantly eroded in the hundred years after Aurangzeb), was repeated within the Hindu fold to alienate the middle castes in the 20th century.

In the context of Bihar, the strategy of the Congress-Cambridge-Columbia combine was clear to me many months ago when a senior former diplomat joined the cadres of Nitish’s party. After his joining, the sulahnamaa with Lalu was no surprise, nor were the election results. This may sound like falling victim to a conspiracy theory, namely of admission of the manipulation of Indian political scene by certain Euro-American lobbies to oppose the rise of the Right of the Centre politics in India and hence of Modi.

But the history of this intervention is very old. It began by the demonization of the Brahmins and creation of the notions of victimization of the shudras now called SC by an imaginary oppressive Brahmanism (which was made synonymouswith upper caste or Savaranas) but which had actually lost social voice with the advent of Islam almost seven hundred years ago. Assisting the task of Christian proselytization was the initial aim of this Brahmin demonization.

To this was added another ‘victimized’ category, the OBC category, to further the isolation of the Hindu Savaranas. Some rather confused though well meaning intellectuals like Ram Manohar Lohia under fuzzy notions of a soft Marxism, swallowed the colonizers’ pill. In 80s, sociologists like Rajani Kothari and Gail Omvedt were encouraged and patronized by the Anglophones to revive Mandalism and reward the OBCs and to create a pro-Muslim (read pro-Arabic, discourse to bolster internationally the state of Saudi Arabia and to reward it for its cooperation to the American oil lobbies).

The Indian Marxists under Congress protection and money supply did the exemplary task of translating the colonial paradigm of ‘OBC victimization’into Indian languages in the Universities and hence into the lower middle classes of the Indian population of which the OBC is a substantial section.

Reservations also provide a fresh life line to the gasping Marxism of Congress-Soviet- alliance in India and to the IAS/IFS officialdom to maintain their hegemony under the continuation of Nehruvian State. This should also explain the defeat of Modi in Bihar. Modi was and is supported largely by the NRI and local business enterprise and the nationalist intellectual who wishes to dismantle the Nehruvian Socialist order.

Reservations always provide a new life lease to the Command Economy State or the Legislator/ Bureaucrat (Neta-Babu) State which is loved by the Indian politician in general including those of the BJP and the RSS as the freedom of the entrepreneur is dangerous to their established chain of authority. All Indian politicians prefer the chain of authority to stay the same so that they can manipulate it in their partisan interest as and when they are blessed with power. Even the BJP wants it, only, alas, that most of the members of the Chain have been obliged to the Congress over the years.

What’s more, they were brainwashed by their alma maters and teachers to believe in the sanctity of Nehruvian Socialism which has kept the officialdom going even though it has ceased to deliver for decades now. This is true, notwithstanding the fact that BJP is supported by the small business owners for reasons of ‘Hindu faith’. This promotion of Hindu faith or rather a regard for the Hindu textual tradition etc was not the work of the RSS but of the institutions like Niranaya Sagar Press, Ananda Ashram Press, Adyar Library and above all of the Gita Press Gorakhpur and many other religious orders. Though it should,RSS does not interact sufficiently with the traditional intellectuals of the Indian tradition. It only promotes a set number of ideas and limited research areas which are useful to political application.

Therefore the complaints of a large number of scholars and writers (not the Congress-Pinkies of the Award Wapsi fame) of traditional traditions whom they have neglected for decades and thus laid themselves open to the charge of being votaries of a limited ideology.

Modi is marginally supported, but not really accepted by the RSS and the BJP which are still following the Brahmo Samaj and crypto-Gandhian vision of India in which the Saint or the Monastic or the semi-Ascetic order becomes part of Governance.

For them, a Vasishtha or a Vishvamitra asking a Rama to deal with adharma is not enough, but many mini-Parashuramas are needed to displace the existing rulers. This should also explain the bitter and almost pathetic rebellion of an intellectual like Arun Shourie who resents the entry of several semi-Parashuramas.

The classical model of chaturvarga and chaturaashrama, called Varnaashramadharma did not recommend the Sannyasin or the Vaanaprasthin to undertake Governance himself.All the saints and munis and the Earth herself went to Vishnu to incarnate as a grihastha. The Purna Avatara is of a Grihastha because as the logic of classical Hinduism would like it, the social order can be reformed from inside only. The way out for the RSS, BJP, VHP and the Right of the Centre thinkers is to create an extensive interactive process with a wide variety of professionals and thinkers. So far, the melas organized as conferences by them have been Party Celebrations overdone and in the imitation of Congress..

To smash the Casteist Reservation Shackles of Indian politics, a dynamic alteration in the endogamic nature of Hindu marriage practices is required. Nothing more and nothing less.The challenge is not only in rationalizing the rules of Reservation but to alter the sense of identity and attachment that Caste or Jatis today. A massive social revolution is required in which the futility of old Jati affiliations is exposed and abandoned.

Here regressive thinkers like Gurumurthy would have to be confronted as they have been lobbying for the bolstering of caste identities which they think can still be functional as in the past case of shrenis or jatis as units of economic growth. Some examples of the rise of jatis like Gounders have been overplayed by Gurumurthy and his followers, overlooking the fact that new professions like doctors, netas, academics, engineers, expatriates, NRIs are the new jatis of modern economic order which are only prosperity based.

B.P. Mandal submitting his report to Home Minister Zail Singh in December 1980

How can old jati classifications of a bygone age, of a pre-industrial economy, of professions that do not exist be the basis of an economic revival. As a matter of fact, clinging to them, is to oppose the primary principle of dharmashastras that achaara and vyavahaara is not eternal but evolving with desa and kaala.


Is the Sangh Parivar prepared to work for transformation of jati parameters in Hindu marriages so that jati identity and hence reservation comes to an end in the long run? Is Hindu advancement possible without undertaking this task at a war scale and without making accurate strategies at national scale? Is this beyond the scope of Hindu Ekata/ Hindu unification and beyond the ideals of Cultural Nationalism and Hindu humanism? We have seen that mere glorification of economic reform does prevent ugly caste-ism from taking political advantage. To my mind it is not debatable any more, nor can this task can be postponed. The task before us is to plan how to go about it and with haste.

Dr. Bharat Gupt is a retired Associate Professor who taught at Delhi University. He can be contacted at [email protected]
  • Balakrishnan Hariharan

    The fact also is that the NaMo Sarkar had nothing to show in short term gains to the constituency that voted overwhelmingly for him in 2014. Democracy also means rewarding people who got you to power. No point in telling wait for 2019 for the fruits. NaMo is getting incresasingly hamstrung with AJ as his FM – who is a disaster for NaMo. Period.

  • _chAyA_

    Right from Buddha days, every attempt to create a “single” identity for HIndus has failed. the younger of Indic religions, Sikhism, went on to carve a distinct identity & brought untold horrors due to Khalistan. First it was jAti discrimination now we are waging war against jAti itself! if this isn’t pitting one hindu against others, why are we surprised that Abrahamics gain over us?

  • Rajat Datta

    The leftist dominated media and the so called intellectuals have been peddling all types of obnoxious lies about the government regarding so called intolerance. The BJP spokespersons and particularly Narendra Modi should take these forces head on and expose their game. The comments by some leaders signify that the BJP is playing into the hands of the forces intent on derailing Modi. The hotheads should be reined in immediately and the party should take meaningful steps to punish the traitors who abuse Hinduism and mollycoddle Pakistan.

  • southernwonder

    all the polls before the bihar election, on the eve of the election, and all the exit polls suggested bjp was going to win, albeit by different seat margins.
    i do not think all the polls could be so wrong by miles. polls are usually wrong within the margin of error.
    either the indian voters are dishonest when polled – not an unlikely scenario because honest co-operation in public interest is still not a widely shared indian virtue; but “ulloo banaya” is – or there is something terribly fishy here.

  • southernwonder

    calling socialism a “command economy” is counterproductive. the economy can only be incentivised, it can not be commanded. “command economy”, however intended, conveys to an untrained impressionable mind that it would be a good thing because you can command something into favorable compliance.
    this is specially deplorable when the opponents of socialism use this expression.
    let’s instead call it a “freedom killer” economy.

  • Vijay

    i think media played a major role to swing 2-3% vote against Modi by hyping ‘intolerance’… Every country has a choice of Left wing channels and right wing — India is the only country where there is no english right-centre wing news channel — its a torture to not have this option — we must all get together and start online petition so likes of anupam kher and @mediacrooks who can articulate issues well should start a news channell (ofcourse with help from BJP govt funding) — Its mind boggling why BJP itself is not taking initiative to do this… Ofcourse we need a channel that has some commercial elements too, not the astha types

  • _chAyA_

    is there no other way to unify Hindus than trampling on an identity that’s at least 2000 years old? can this be accomplished without violence both physical & mental? we can all agree that the anglicized elite has given up their jAti identity. Yet it hasnt led to that elusive “unity”, but made them traitors! So problem isn’t having jAti identity. Problem is NOT having a unifying force similar to the one played by the Japanese emperor. Prof. Gupt mentions there is no need for jAti identity because the professions are long gone. But aren’t there still professions that “need” this kind of pride in hereditary professions? For eg. see this: http://m.thehindu.com/features/metroplus/society/the-unsung-makers-of-music/article7872965.ece

    hindu intellectuals should come out of this “blame jAti” mentality. instead should identify ways to use it positively.

    • Dear Chaya, you are following Gurumurthy logic on caste.These nadaswaram makers are not imortant for their caste or jaati but there skills in making nadaswaram. A good long time grant to their family and the purchase of nadaswarams at a high price by the state will preserve these people. That is how Jatis were preserved in the past.
      Now they are only dividing us a social polity. What is wrong if two doctors marry each other if one is from south another a Kolkata. Also what is wrong if two SCs marry if one is a fisherman caste another leather worker. Hindus will never get free of the Caste System restrictions unless they cooly consider jatis as professions of a bygone age. How can you use them constructively now? Even in the past they were not supported as castes but as skill-holders. Were Vedic reciters given lands by the kings on gotra or pravara basis or on the basis of excellence. Didi they teach only their caste or subcaste?

      • _chAyA_

        /* gurumurthy logic on caste */ Sir, are you disputing the fact that caste provides social capital ? That apart, there isn’t a more quicker way to uproot a person than this kind of cross country / culture assortative mating. It hasnt worked well for US for the past 50 years (Coming Apart by Charles Murray) & isn’t working much for Hindus as well. ( divorces & other social unrest on the rise in urban / educated India) Assortative mating has also resulted in lot of Hindu males left out of procreation (due to inbuilt female hypergamy) in families who are still performing their ancestral and/or ‘lower prestige’ vocations ( priests, farmers & so on) .very crucial when hindu tfr is going down.

        US is famous for abandoning its elderly/ disabled to outsiders’ care. Haven’t Hindus through their jAti system able to handle this aspect better than other civilisations?

        /* purchase of nadaswarams at a high price by the state will preserve these people. */ Will be brought to nought when Islam & Christianity overtake Hindus in numbers & gain political power. Irrespective of whether Hindus abolish endogamy or not. So the real culprit isn’t jAthi, but one man/one vote.

        Before suggesting Hindus give up their endogamy we need to answer if it will result in more societal instability or not. Hindu philosophy on marriage/society is man & woman should be complementary & hence society was built on biological facts.

        If Hindus are being divided based on their caste, blame should be on universal adult franchise.

        /* How can you use them constructively now? */ – eg of constructive use of jAti/family style business. Jains taking over diamond trade from Jews in Belgium – http://isteve.blogspot.com/2010/07/jews-and-indians-in-antwerps-diamond.html

        some constructive uses for how to use existing jAti – https://orientviews.wordpress.com/2013/07/23/what-we-lost-by-destroying-jathi/#comment-11318 am sure people who are in the know can come up with even better ideas.

        If castes aren’t important, the skills they have surely are & the most efficient way to transmit skills over centuries is through father-son ie people & how society is setup. New age professions like acting aren’t exemptions to this rule eg: Bollywood.

        by working against human instincts ( protecting one’s own ) we aren’t doing Hindus any favor.

        very important to understand the implications of this : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Son_Also_Rises_(book)


        • All `what u say applied well to pre industrial society, Taking care of parents is Hindu Samskara not jati lakshana. Indian IT people in USA are from all jatis and region,

          • _chAyA_

            Sir, I meant taking care of the weaker sections of society has been easier due to this kind of jAti setup. Not necessarly was part of jAti lakshana.

  • malavika

    Nehru – Indira dynasty has been splitting the Hindu vote and consolidating the minority vote. A classic divide and rule strategy.

    Also, the Lallu-Nitish combo could transfer their respective vote shares to each other but not BJP+. Perhaps the memory of Jungle raj faded from public memory and they elected a lot of criminals from the JDU+ combo. Unfortunate for the people of Bihar. In this case the caste arithmetic and chemistry worked in favor of JDU+.

    A lot of people including me are unhappy with the progress on the corruption front. Lallu is out on bail so is YS Jagan of AP. So, when Misa (Lallu’s daughter) says if UPA was so corrupt why are people not in jail it resonates with people.

    There is no reason why BJP cannot split the OBC vote. They can easily do that, reservation within reservation for poor Yadavs, or Yadav whose father is uneducated, farmer or who is not an officer. The list can go on.

  • vamsi krishna

    There are fundamental fallacies in author’s prognosis.

    1. Firstly, Author assumes that enter caste system,loosely defined as it is, had been turned into anti-forward caste or anti-brahmin sloganeering. This is true, but it rings so hollow these days that its no longer the campaign cause among the OBC castes. “That forward castes are going to threaten us”! is something biharis no longer believe in as they are enough empowered to counter that. The problem is not vertical and heirachial votebanks but horizontal vote banks. OBC’s no longer think themselves as oppressed if forward caste BJP (or perceived) comes to power. But strong caste identities and not to vote for other leaders and only vote if there is a formal power sharing agreement like Lalu-Nitish combine. The reason a good number of yadavs and other OBC’s voted modi is because neither Lalu nor nitish were contending for power in delhi.

    2. Have the author missed the point that possibly Nitish was seen as tried and tested leader and BJP’s fear mongering of Lalu didn’t work out as planned.

    3.The coalition of Lalu-Nitish is a one trick pony. It will work out until both do not cross other’s lines which is impossible considering the socialist state and zero sum economic policy they play. For them, the resulting wealth or prosperity is static and it must be shared among their favored vote banks. And this wealth is distributed by the state headed by leader of vote banks. This would inevitably lead to conflict unlike BJP’s philosophy of building common psychological and material space (development) for all the people irrespective of their caste standing.
    Sure, bihar is not yet perhaps ready to see common assets of state as more important than unreliable caste assets (reservations et al) but there is a confounding shell life for this socialist policy which has been proved worldwide.

    4. Low growth states always resulting in warring of different interest groups in gaining as much power and prosperity as possible to ensure they do not remain the biggest losers (either individually or community wise). Hence the small shell life for this philosophy. This is what happened in 90’s when most of the power transferred from FC’s to Yadav’s without any growth in prosperity (the real GDP actually shrunk).

    5. Finally,Muslims 17% of the population they are, to the detriment of Soclalist parties (and ultimately to the BJP’s idea of India) are going to demand real power. Owaisi’s MIM might have failed this time, but the patronizing muslims with namesake slogans while real power being enjoyed by other caste groups will make them think. Modi’s ascendance might have united muslims but ironically, when BJP is down, Muslims are more emboldened to be divided and move to political places where promises have much more crediblity.

    • Yours is typical Rajani Kothari logic: empower castes to give them voice, but do not recognize how one caste interest clashes with another and in the long run creates only conflict not business or commerce,

      In ancient society when caste system worked, each caste earned status and wealth, big or small, by their skills not by state largess or reservation. Hence once a caste became well off they declared themselves to be higher in hierarchy.

      Now in the socialist Reservationist state, each caste is asking for a birth-right (right to be compensated for oppression done to their forefathers a thousand years ago. Biharis voted for Lalu-Nitish because they want more power in Bihar and snatch it from Savarans through increased reservation in Bihar and political favours to given by their OBC caste leader as CM.

      You yourself admit that this has a short shelf life of this strategy. You are yourself repeating that as in the 90s this bible burst fast. So you are admitting what I say, that OBC vada was able to get power at the State level in Bihar, by the Mandal ghost that arose. But you do not realize that with many OBCs combining in various parts of India by 2017, an OBC PM like Deve Gowda may be installed and India will be back to square one.

      Nitish did not achieve any substantial development. It is all propoganda, if he had he would have become a Vikas Purush of Bihar as Modi did of Gujarat. That he had to rely on Lalu only proves my point. Vikas and Jati cannot go together. That is why I have suggested that RSS and various other organizations must initiate a social revolution to wipe out caste by promoting widely the endogamous alliances that Hindu society is still preserving and which has been used by colonialist to obstruct its doors to modernity.

      • correction

        wipe out caste by NOT promoting the endogamous alliances that Hindu society is still preserving

  • Rajeshkumar Srivastava

    To my mind it is not that worrying what it is being understood. The Nation is under transformational fage from the long shadow of two major ideologies of Buddha and Mahavir. These two Hindu philosophers had have absolutly disarmed the population of this continent.
    Resultantly, this land was occupied by every Huns, Tatars, Mangols, Afgans and Mugals. It was put under almost an Islamic law where the pride of the people was tried to be destroyed. British rule continued the same system of humiliation and tried to pull us out of Islamic state of mind and colonize our mind set to European Imports (thoughts).
    Yet the people successfully survived and are in process of returning towards it’s basics.
    Secularism is the midway halt. It will further ahead and achieve it’s notion of Nation.

  • Gopi Maliwal

    BJP lost Bihar because former Lohiaites allied with their former foremost enemy – Nehru Cong – and defeated Modi-led BJP. Same would have been the result in VS elections in Maharashtra, Jharkhand and Haryana if there was no 3-way split. And, if one looks at vote share %, BJP’s performance in Assam, Jharkhand, Bihar, AP, Maharashtra, Karnataka, UP, Delhi, Haryana and J&K would have been much less sterling in LS elections as well if opposition had combined, a probability much higher now post-Bihar environment than it was in 2014.
    Was the caste the factor for such vote distribution in all those states? If so, why BJP is able to stand on its own and win in HP, UK, Raj, MP, Guj, Goa & CS (all mostly 2-party states with non-significant presence of certain vote banks) despite different caste composition in these states?
    I have not seen any credible analysis from any expert on this phenomenon. It will be useful to look at these aspects instead of tilting at imaginary windmills.

    • Sujata Srinath

      Agreed. And I would like some acknowledgement that it is possible the EVMs were rigged either during the result announcement or while voting itself. It is just not possible for such healthy leads at 10:30 am to turn into such disastrous reversals within half an hour. Or is it?

    • malavika

      Read Praveen Patil of 5Forty3.in

      He’s got a lot of good data.

  • Ashish

    If that’s the case, why upper castes predominantly voted MGB then?

  • Pratap Mohanty

    Dear Dr Gupta, Did not like you story. Why this desperation to covertly blame it on Bhagwat Ji ? Why cant the analyst simply digest that its a failure of BJP Poll managers & they should be fired for making a mess of an election. Regrds. Post Script: I tweet almost 95 percent stories that appear in India Facts. But wont tweet this one nor post it on my facebook.

    • Please read carefully! I have made it clear that the result is because of caste alliance AND NOT because of any other factor. including the words of Bhagvat Ji. Hindu Samaj is failing to admit that the OBC alliance defeated it because Hindu Samaj is caste ridden. I am asking the whole Sangh Parivar to start with a long term program to make caste insignificant by introducing new parameters of marriages. Here the RSS and BJP must not fail now as they have over years. In the last ten years BJP could have wonders and RSS even more in weakening caste barriers. It is a SOCIAL REVOLUTION THAT IS NEEDED.

  • Sahadev Kunapuli

    In a on the spot interview in Bihar during campaigning, Rajdeep asked the crowd whether they agree with RSS Chief comment on reservation, each and every one in the crowd agreed that reservation should be based on economic criteria. He pulled the mike away because he did not get answer he wanted. Unless the crowd consisted of 100 % upper caste , this is the real public mood. With less than 3 % of jobs in government sector, reservation in jobs is not very important. In education, except engineering, medical reservation is not very crucial. How many children of beneficiaries of reservation are in government service ? Development is key to overcoming problems faced by the poor in India. Combination of economic growth, targeted subsidies, direct anti poverty programmes alone will help in “sabka vikas ” . As for Sangh Parivar, they should start a campaign to visit poorest of poor localities, appeal for each well to do family adopt one poor family for education,health. When other faiths have 000’s of foot soldiers, sitting in mutts, ashrams and giving sermons will not yield the desired results. Reach out

  • Dharma Youdha

    Yes the Sangh Parivar should interact with and invest in intellectuals. The BJP should have more spokespersons. Its high time that they do something about the media, which has a free run in spitting whatever poison they want against Hindu nationalists.
    Plus the BJP should not make the same mistakes that it did the last time during Vajpayee govt.
    In NDA 1 they had started alienating themselves form the RSS. In fact in the last years, Advani and all had started talking about “secularism” and all. They brought some good reforms in the economy but did not do anything for the cause of Hindutva. They disrespected the ambitions of Hindu Nationalist and the Parivar and we all know what the outcome was in 2004.
    We need a greater integration of the BJP and the RSS not this all time denial that by both that they have nothing to do with each other except “margadarshan” .
    Modi should come out in the open and slam all the claims by the media that somehow the Parivar is derailing its economic agenda. Its the BJP’s own fault by letting the likes of Sakshi Maharaj and Sadhvi Prachi roam free. They not only cause electoral damage but also give a bad name to the Hindutva moment.
    Bottom line…. the BJP is a “Hindu Nationalist Party” , so it should start acting like one.

  • slayer98

    Existence of Caste itself is debatable because caste identity was imposed by the vile British rule to deracinate Hinduism. What existed then was only a social order to perpetuate the vyavahara or mundane growth. Now coupled with neo-colonizers agenda and our trojan horses the caste conflict assumed monstrous proportions even deciding the fate of elections be it national or state level. So castes cannot be abolished through legal means and it would invite backclash from various dominant castes and thus liable to aggravate the problems. Inter caste marriages are taking place now also but only in Metros and urban India. In rural India dominant castes have an iron grips over the follwers.

    • Luffy

      So Caste System doesn’t exist you say? Try Bhagvad Gita Chapter 11 Shloka 23. There Karna is clearly mentioned as Sut Putra (Son of a lowly charioteer) by Arjuna. When Karna challenged Arjuna for dual of best archer, Bhima insulted Karna by saying Sut is Kaput (low caste person is not ideal son) and should not try to fight.

      Same with Ramayana. Laxmana got angry when the boat driver compared himself to Rama. There is fair bit of casteism in Bhagwad Purana as well including Sage Narada’s story (Chapter 1 probably). Bottom line is Casteism is one thing that was not brought by British or Mughals. It always existed.

      You are like one of those Islamists who blames everything wrong in Islam to Zionists and Americans. No Sir, Hinduism has an evil of Caste and unless we acknowledge it, it won’t go away. My grandmother and to certain extent my parents were involved in casteism. It is for me and my future generations to make amends for it. Unless you acknowledge there is a problem you can’t find a solution to it.

      • BvB09

        Please don’t add words in translation that simply are not there. “suta” refers to a jati. Nowhere in the Mbh is it termed “low”. Even Duryodhana and Dhrtarashtra refer to Karna as “suta”‘ or “suta putra”. Do you really think Duryodhana would have insulted his best buddy? Another example – Vidura is often referred to by his jati (moxed marriage) as “kshatri”. Do you think this somehow implies “low born”? No, because Yudhishtira often says things like “my humble obeisance to that kshatri (Vidura) who is steadfast in dharma”. The problem with us is that we superimpose caste biases that exist today onto a text which is a few thousand years old. Every time I watch the TV serial Mbh (be it the older version or the new Star TV production), I laugh when they show the pandavas curling their lips in anger as they say, “suta”. This is simply our projection of the text.

        Note that I am not saying there wasn’t caste or hierarchy. All I am saying is that your translation of “suta putra as “son of a lowly charioteer” is downright wrong. In fact some scholars like Kazanas argue that even “chariot” is a wrong / misleading translation of “ratha”. But that is a post for another rainy day.

        • Luffy

          LOL… The Islamists justify in similar manner. Oh but.. but there are peaceful verses in the Quran. So what? That doesn’t take away the fact that there are violent verses in the Quran and ISIS follows them. And that Prophet Muhammad during last stage of his life would have been a member of ISIS or head of ISIS.

          Mahabharata with or without translation can show great injustice done to Karna and Eklavya due to being born in particular caste or jati as you say. Nothing would change that fact. Time to acknowledge it and move to remove it. Let the Islamists do the Bullshit Bingo. We are here to change and improve.

          • Krispy K

            Don’t talk crap. The fact that you make a blanket comparison with Islamists and completely ignore the counter arguments made because it doesn’t suit you is the same tired old method employed by Marxist bullshitters. If you don’t have the comprehension ability to understand nuances, or the basic intelligence to see that comparing the complexity of Indian history, society and philosophy to the crude dogma of Islam is the act of an imbecile, then just slink back under your rock. Fixing the caste problems in our society cannot be done by spreading false hate like you and your ilk like to do. Spreading that hate, however, *is* very useful for those with a specific anti-Hindu agenda.

        • Krispy K

          This is far too complicated to understand for the likes of Luffy (who sounds exactly like another Marxist drone pretending to be “Hindu”). We should all just blame everything bad in society on “Hinduism” rather than analyse them properly. Otherwise how can these self-awarded fake “liberals” push their agenda further?