On the passing of the Ayyas
In the aftermath of the recent incident over attacks on Brahmins in Tamil Nadu, one can think of many things to say and write. One could write about the history of the Dravidian movement and its unique focus on reforming society by focusing on only one community. One could write about the popular notion of Brahmins as rich, upper-class oppressors and try and show why this popular notion is not quite accurate. One could lament the fall in status of Brahmins and claim marginalization for the community, especially those who carry on hereditary priestly occupations.
This article is none of those. In this article, we shall examine the social condition of Tamil Nadu as it stands today and show why the current hatred will not be checked and will not abate until the Tamil Brahmin community is entirely obliterated. Given the electoral insignificance of the community, the lack of political organization or a common caste-based platform, one cannot expect any of the political parties in Tamil Nadu to ever take up discrimination against Brahmins as an issue.
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Also, given the nature of how rhetoric operates, any organization or leader that takes up any kind of support for Brahmins will be quickly marked as being a supporter of varnashrama system, and acting as underlings for Brahmin overlords. This rhetoric works well, since, in the popular discourse, Brahmins have long been cast as the oppressor and a figure of disgust and at best, mockery. One needs to only study discrimination and hate across societies in the world, that discrimination and hate can be countered only if one of two things happens:
- The target group organizes politically and pushes back against all discriminative practices, including hate speech, negative portrayal in media and official neglect.
- The hate exhausts itself in violence, such as riots and enslavement.
The scope for the first change is very limited, given the fast diminishing population of Brahmins, due to migration, exogamy and poor fertility. There is a very low scope for the second too – at one point of time, about 25 years ago, there were a sufficient number of Brahmins in regions with high numbers of inimical forces, such as the fertile delta region of Thanjavur. However, with the emptying out of agraharams, there is hardly anyone against whom violence can be targeted.In this context, the future for the community in Tamil Nadu is one of eventual demise and assimilation of remaining numbers into existing castes in the state.
As a final note, I would like to share a personal episode, to illustrate how the community would eventually end. A childless Brahmin couple, after living across the world, retired to their ancestral village, where they were the only Brahmin family living then. They taught the children of the village Carnatic music, Sanskrit prayers, English and Maths. They also planted hundreds of trees along the banks of the Tamraparani. The lady has since passed on and her husband lives with relatives in the city, too feeble to live alone. The children who sing the songs and recite the prayers no longer remember the old Mama and Mami who taught them. The birds, animals and people who enjoy the shade of the trees neither know nor care who plated them. But the children do sing and the birds do chirp. And, in the end, that is all that matters.
http://www.sanskritimagazine.com/newsworthy/what-have-i-done-to-deserve-this-humiliation
I have an anecdote to share. I had an interesting experience with an Anglo woman who stood in front of me as I tried to get through a narrow space in a fruit market few hours ago. She moved only when I got close to her, and because she is the Anglo ruler, at least that is what the attitude showed, she actually threw a gaalee at me while all the dark skinned Dravidians stood cowering in front of her. I looked past her as if she matters little to me while she mumbled galee because she is only used to Indian women, Tamilians, Dravidians and South Indians stretching their smile and anus at the sight of her, and moving away in fear, deference and total obedience and devotion. I refused to do that.
So I looked at her with contempt…conveying, “Oh no you don’t. You do not occupy every space in the world, including North America where you killed the Natives and enslaved Blacks, and every nook and corner of the world, and use these sites to read the comments and find new ways to ‘divide and rule’. I might have differences with my brothers and sisters. I might even argue with my own sister. I might have differences with DMK politics….but you will never use it against us or my people. Do you understand madam Anglo and sir Anglo? Do you understand? Now take your cheap fruits, pay what is due and leave my country with grace. Do you understand you fool.”
That is how you deal with colonialists and colonial idiots who try to divide and rule…by using this Dravida politics. Next time I see content of these sites, where honest democracy is at work, being used by editors, editorial board, spies and other unenlightened fools playing “Gotcha” games, “Or divide and rule”. game…I will come after you with every thing one can master and muster. Never underestimate the Tamilian Kaali. I am happy to be one sometimes.
As one South African activist actually shouted on a Democracy Now! coverage of his protest against colonial exploitation of land and resources, “The biggest Parayaas are Anglo colonialists”. Mmmm, I wonder what would have happened if anyone on these sites had said that. More power to people of color who say things bluntly….They show more democracy that the pretentious “Anglo or Christian hierarchy, conformity and compliance”. Full stop.
We may argue and even say things bluntly…but we are not people who are going to let anyone divide and rule us again.
Samje?
We are all Indian Brahmins or Brahmins in making…Paraayaas the Anglo colonialists and butchers. Full stop.
Mmmm, something got removed from the comment section. A woman from Sudan once said that “Dravid Tamil men” she wanted to date or marry…rejected her. Some said their families would not agree. She thought they were lying, or were not brave enough to marry her. Of course these men would happily and proudly marry Chinese women. Anglo women, European women…of all sorts. But they, the same boys who rant and rave about Brahmin attitude or arrogance, did not want to marry a dark skinned Afro haired African.
Many anti-Brahmin Dravida Tamilians are hypocrites.
A woman from Sudan told me she finds Tamil (so-called Dravidian) men confusing and very racist towards Africans. She wanted to marry a dark skinned Tamil Dravida …but none wanted to marry her? The men told her that their family would not allow it. She said, “What cowards and liars these men are. Many prefer Chinese women, Mainpuri women, Anglo women from the British welfare system (one even married an Eastern European prostitute). But they did not want to marry a Sudanese”. None of these ranting raving anti-Hindu, anti-Brahmin, anti this anti-that Dravida Tamil machos wanted to marry the woman from Sudan. Gas bag hypocrites.
I find many African American men far more attractive than many Tamil Dravida thugs I meet on this website or outside. Thanks for all the comments. Make me proud to say, “I am not from Tamil Nadu…and from now on will say that!”
If I can ask, why do you have a tendency to generalize things? Don`t you think that it will misinterpret the society?
Agreed that there are indeed many hate-filled comments in the recent articles including the present one, but it is ubiquitous for modernity–a sad fact; one gets used to it these days,quite unfortunately.But, our minds need not to be polluted because of these,right? And eventually, the relevant article and the final message should be important, right?
Stop following me around and preaching. You give me the creeps. Frankly this particular comment section has made me sick. I shared it with my ex, a very nice Anglo guy, and he said, “I guess there is a reason why intelligent beautiful Tamil women do not marry Tamil Dravida men. If they are anything like these comments…they are pure evil and hateful of women. They seem to be misogynist”. Since it comes from a man please accept the comment. It speaks poorly of your culture and upbringing. I write on many weblogs…never do I get this kind of low class behaviors. These sites do not being the best in any woman…surrounded by thugs. Think about that.
Yes,I understood it now.Even though my intentions were not to preach–apologies,if they are misunderstood/misinterpreted.(Nevertheless, i was not following your comments, but just could not understand why there is so much anger in these comments section)
Now folks, listen to this……..be open minded/honest—
Once up on a time in this quaint sacred land of Sages, there was a king and his seven sons–feminists can imagine them to be daughters as well-and he asked them to bring(‘hunt’) fishes for the dinner; and they brought an ‘handful of fishes’.
And (un-)fortunately one of them did not dry;the king asked the reason.The fish said–“during one point of time in my life,I was a learned,scholarly,knowledgeable and compassionate being; well respected by anyone and all, by ‘others’ too.Suddenly, due to some internal/external ramifications,I got ridiculed/harassed by all the ‘others’ of my faith; definitely not by everyone, but as usual there were few pseudo-intellectuals among them doing that, which is disturbing the whole community.I got self-alienated from my own people eventually,and hence I did not dry{“try”…OR “cry”,which ever terminology satisfies (y)our ideology}–due to the burden of being overly judgmental”.And to this, all the fishes laughed, but some where deep in their hearts knew that,that hapless fish is true and honest, this time at least.So, friends,the lesson is–there will always be few rotten tomatoes in every caste/creed/community/ faith/religion/sect– they exploit the traditional opportunities for selfish purposes.But that does not mean that particular community(it may be “upper” or “lower, by modern ill-defined anthropological standards) is evil.Let us accept this fact, firstly and healthfully.
I will end this by sharing a small, but true incident,more often than not, not known by people–
Once up on a time, in that same mechanized and rational land, there was a great Scientist, who after completing his degrees tried to get admitted into an institution of his own country.But he got rejected, on the standards that he was from “upper-caste”; by the then definitions, and to an unfortunate extent of today`s ideological terminologies,upper-caste is demonized.And hence, he had to look for “foreign” pastures, got succeeded there and got a Nobel prize too, for his scientific contributions.Did we miss anything here,definitely not a Nobel prize; but something more deeper–an ethical responsibility of every citizen of that “quaint land”.The lesson is same here –the identification of a person need not to stand on artificially created identities.But, he should be understood of what he/she is originally.Just because of those few “rotten tomatoes” ,there is no need to trivialize any community; and doing so would be an ethical failure, not to that community, but to the ‘other’.
Finally,to the skeptics, go through this–
http://www.sanskritimagazine.com/indian-religions/hinduism/tackling-myth-brahmins-educating-non-brahmins/
http://www.sanskritimagazine.com/indian-religions/hinduism/brahmin-bashing-really-deserve-due/
https://ia601504.us.archive.org/26/items/DharampalCollectedWritingsIn5Volumes/3DharampalJiCollectedWritings-beautifultree.pdf
Thank You
This article conveys the plight of an entire community pretty succinctly, though too late. Brahmins have been driven out, mocked at or simply terrorised in TN. It’s irreversible, and the worst part is the Dravidian movement has not obliterated casteism or Dalit suppression at all in all these years. All they have done is to destroy both Brahmins and Brahminism completely from the State. It’s better to leave this state if one gets any opportunity to live either overseas or in other parts of the country.
Brahmanism is better dead than alive. Jai Bhim.
What is the position of the Dalits at the hands of the Dravidian saviours?
Brahminism is not about Brahmins alone. It’s about temples, the Vedas, philosophy and Hinduism in general.
Since the constitution guarantees religious freedom, your suggestion implies that Hinduism itself should be buried.
Hatred leads nowhere. Calm down, and work to integrate rather than eliminate others.
There are wonderful people among Dravidian Hindus and Tamilian non-Hindus and Brahmins…but they are a minority within a minority within a minority.
I have never seen myself as Brahmin this or Brahmin that…until I came to Tamil Nadu. And the crude mean spirited and evil behaviors, well funded by foreign money, missionaries and certain minorities, has only made me realize that I am proud of the intellectual and value driven Brahminism that I grew up with outside Tamil Nadu: which gave me good values, sweetness, honesty, sensitivity, humanity, humility and integrity. I am glad I spent most of my time outside Tamil Nadu. Imagine ones psychology in this State!
I find many Brahmin men of Tamil Nadu more Dravidian in appearance, dress and mannerisms today. They are mostly Shavites or ritualized isolated Brahmins, Few even speak Sanskritized Tamil. Lot of them have assimilated and have married working class ladies who once cleaned their bathrooms. Good for them. The women love their fair skin, softness and sweetness while throwing gaalees at Brahmin women – who are not all maamees, cooking, cleaning and doing pujas.
Educated smart Brahmin women are the ones who are now most isolated and leave the State, and want to leave the country also.
The Brahmin men of Tamil Nadu are now mostly low end workers following dumb rituals and bullying their women…while stretching their smile and anus to Dravidian thugs, dominators and dragon men and women. I saw up close a Dravidian woman, with gold from top to bottom, ugliest woman in appearance, insult an old struggling Brahmin man in a temple. I looked at that man and felt sorry for him as he stood there smiling like a fool at her insults while he was expected to do a puja for her. He did nothing to her…except for his poonal or thread. Beating up on a man who is already beaten by poverty and isolation is cruel. Thank goodness I don’t come from the priest community. I come from scholarly community and hope leave the State and never return to this junk.
In another case a Brahmin woman was glared at and had herself insulted while going for walks. She is 70 years old, fair, thin and looks good for her age, and some Dravida men harass her on the streets. She does not go for walks after 7:00 pm in the great State of Tamil Nadu. Good luck to Tamil Nadu..which is going to become like Saudi Arabia or Sudan soon. Educated confident Brahmin women suffer the most…and many are driven outside the State and prefer to marry outside the State. Some, including Brahmin men, speak the crudest Tamil I have heard. In fact Malyalee working class seem more cultured than many Tamilian Dravidians or Brahmins or Telegus.
I never saw myself as Brahmin until I came to Tamil Nadu…and now I am very proud of many things Brahmin. This State has not done diddiy squat for me…except tries to hurt me, humiliate me, use me and exploit me. I am convinced that this State, like few others, does not know how to treat its smart strong women. Expect every idiot from every State to rise in Tamil Nadu…except its women. Beyond literacy they don’t go very far. You’ll find smarter career women in Delhi and Mumbai, and in the US, not in Tamil Nadu.
Tamil Nadu only has four kinds of Tamilians: Dravida communists and atheists ; Dravida Christians ; Dravida Muslims or Arab, Urdu and mixed Muslims and a confused rural or suburban Dravida Hindus, The latter, made up of some very nice people, is slowly dying too. Nobody writes about that,
I meet many nice Dravidian men and women who have very low confidence and high inferiority complex…and mistake my confidence for arrogance…because it is all so new and so unusual for them. One feels better among confident career women in Delhi.
In Tamil Nadu there is high literacy…but beyond literacy and low level employment Dravida women have not achieved much…while their men continue to drink, get drunk, be thuggish and be arrogant…while accusing confident women of arrogance. The only ones they love are fair skinned Aishwarya Rai types they want to sleep with. These idiots mistake confident women for “arrogance and Westernization”. Many also have double standards…except in the engineering sector where they meet Brahmins who have done well. But Brahmins are a lost group in Tamil Nadu…and they no longer have confidence, clarity or roots. More than seventy percent of my relatives live outside Tamil Nadu…and never ever want to come there.
Those who stayed behind are old, poor, not very educated, highly ritualistic and dumb enough to defend what is not necessary to defend and cowardly enough not to fight back when necessary. And many have married working class cherees and ghetto people…not the smart educated Brahmins. Smart educated Brahmins, who combine the best of Brahminism, non-Brahmin Hinduism and Westernization, live outside the State and outside the country,
Thanjavoor and Cauvery for them, like Saraswathi river, will be remembered and worshipped only in memory and family rituals hundred years from now. Many do not even come to Tamil Nadu to shave their children’s head as they used to.
Dravidian women can be arrogant and mean too. My cleaning lady, a Dravidian Hindu who has converted to Christianity, spewing out hatred against Hindus receives huge State benefits…and has more things than a middle class upper caste or forward caste person. Yet she stole from her old employer…who is an annoying older Brahmin woman who preaches to everyone including me.
Not all are Brahmins are Agraharam types. In fact those who got left behind are the “idiots, passive people, totally clueless, ritualistic….and as patriarchal as the Dravidians” None of these guys impress me…They cannot stand up and fight for their own women who are being bullied or battered by Dravida or/and Tamilian thugs.
Sushing their women, and turning them into good cooks (so their sambar, rasam, koota and aviyal are perfect) is all they do…
There are wonderful people among Dravidian Hindus and Tamilian non-Hindus and Brahmins…but they are a minority within a minority within a minority.
Good luck…
Your reply is very accurate. As a Tamil Brahmin intent on returning to Tamil Nadu, I take your comment as a warning.
your comment is a disgrace.
I am a Adi Dravida belonging to the Paraiyan caste and I heap curses on you for your superiority complex – Dr MS. Brahmins had oppressed for a thousand years.
How are you a Tamilian with a name like Ambedkarite? He was a Maharashtrian and a Buddhist. Buddha was not a Buddhist…and he spoke fluent Sanskrit. So you hate Brahmins but you love Anglo colonialism. Great I will send my ex, a lovely Anglo American Hindu Buddhist, who probably will find you ugly, but you can suck his ^%$#. Tamil men like you make great gay prostitutes. Frankly I don’t care for your curses. I am a Goddess and I state that you are a loser who goes to narak right away. Join the Jihadist movement if you have not already. Next time you support foreigners to kill the PM of India as certain Tamil leaders did, which you were part of, you go to jail. Do you understand? You are not a Hindu…so stop pretending like one. Convert, convert, convert….
Why so much anger?You could have argued intellectually, right?
If you keep abusing women…they will react angrily. Are you too stupid or too sexist to figure that out? Only a dumb narcissist would have asked that question. Grow up. Being mature amidst abuse is not an achievement. Try stopping the abuse in stead of advising women to be intellectual with website thugs.
You sound like the Jihadists who said to his sister who got raped, “Why did you go out by yourself wearing a sleeveless blouse? And if a man approached you and started touching you inappropriately…you should wait for the police or be nice to him and change him. Otherwise you deserve to get raped…and now I must honor kill you.”
That is how you sound.
Try to change or shoo the dog away…in stead of advising me. I am not interested in intellectual exchange with thugs.
“Being mature amidst abuse is not an achievement”.
Agreed !!
present data you liar.
Do you have a psychological problem ma’am? You sure sound it. What’s wrong with a dark skin?
Nothing wrong with a dark skin. Did I say that? You obviously cannot read. You have inferiority complex that is why you spend time lugging insults and foul comments on non-dark women. Why do you spend so much time with fair-and-lovely cream, chasing after Brahmin women, fair skinned women or Anglo women? Why don’t you marry dark skinned women? Your inferiority complex is showing.
Why is that every one of your comments relates back to perceived slights about the fact that you’re a woman? Why is it that any time you appear to be losing a debate, you decide to jump the gun and immediately assume the opponent is a sexist? Is self-victimization your go-to plan whenever you have nothing constructive to say? Frankly no one here cares whether you’re male, female, or transgender. It’s completely irrelevant to the discussion at hand, and the fact that you feel compelled to bring it up with just about every comment is actually pretty funny, but also quite pathetic.
With that said, I’m a Tamil “Brahmin” myself, but it’s comments like yours that push many of us (including myself) to discard our caste identity. And to be honest, when one’s caste is filled to the brim with arrogant, colorist, casteist, self-pitying individuals such as yourself, I don’t blame them. What you don’t seem to understand is that the death knell for Hinduism will eventually ring (let’s hope it doesn’t) not merely as a result of the work of the assorted anti-Hindus who are steadily gaining power around the world, but also as a result of the incredibly fractured condition of our society — a status quo your views only serve to exacerbate. Go on, rant on about how I’m some sort of chauvinistic pig disrespecting your opinion merely because you’re a woman. That is, after all, what you do best.
The Brahmins in Tamil Nadu are partly to blame for their own dilemma. They should integrate and lead, not be aloof and arrogant. The problem started when they left their rural agraharams in droves to secure a western education and to then dominate the professions. Had they remained, in their traditional roles of learning and piety, they would have been the leaders of rural Tamil Nad. I disagree with the previous statements that attacks on Brahmins in Tamil Nadu are attacks on Hinduism and appreciate Paancha Janyan’s point which once again is all about integration and leadership.
So how many of the non-brahmin castes are still in villages and pursuing their traditional professions? The brahmin is not a kshatriya and he cannot fight back physically. Are you saying a Goundar or a Kongu Vellalar does not deserve respect or to be defended just becsuse they too have migrated to cities, pursue English education and are no longer traders or farmers? What kind of nasty argument is this? As Purishottam points pout, this is not the problem of just brahmins just as women’s issues are not just women’s issues but that of society in its entirety. The entire anti-brahmin movement was led from the front by elite non-brahmins who entered into a destructive partnership with anti-Hindu atheists. To say a brahmin is deserving of respect only if he a vaidika is akin to saying a woman will be pritected in society only if she conforms to male chauvinist views on the place and role of women. The tragedy of brahmins must be lived to be known. We have lived through abject penury, total discrimination and deprivation which we did not wear on our sleeves. In a sense the end fate of Tamil brahmins is the fate of Kashmiri Pandits. We cannot be made to do agnipariksha every time some non-brahmin elitist points a finger at us.
The joshua project specifically targets few communities that will help in quicker destruction of Hindu culture.. e.g. temple builders, architects.. once converted they are encouraged to take on other profession thus the skill dies within one or two generations……
When you cannot assimilate like the catholic in a inculturation mode, its better to destroy like the evangelicals !!!!!!!
yes, lets destroy Hinduism quickly. Can’t you see all the hatred in the comments above. That is Hinduism. There is no compassion. Tamils are better off Buddhist. Jai Bhim.
Yes, let the majestic clouds disappear in obscurity; let the empathetic rain evaporate continuously; let the dew drops be swallowed dishonestly; let the land be remover disparagingly; let the seed be implanted ferociously; let the tree be overshadowed woefully.You have taken a permanent seat in the misplace heavens of a secret sedentary paradise.
Please feel free to introspect.Your experiences may be true, bu NOT you ideologies.
Thank You
jaundice. you see hate elsewhere but its source is YOU.
Brahmins suffer because of the sins they have committed in their previous births
And no we have no dilemma. Either we have succeeded phenominally in whatever we do or we have remained in abject penury denied any affirmative action by government like the brahmins who carry dead brahmins to the crematorium and the brahmins who perform the 13 day last rites for the dead. We cannot eat grass because we are hungry; or rats.
Spoken like a true Tamil Brahmin! What arrogance! You have the temerity to compare the situation of Brahmins in Tamil Nad with the situation of women! Women were denied opportunity and constrained only on account of being women and they deserve equality of opportunity and respect. The Brahmins in Tamil Nad have had more than their share of opportunity dominating the professions, university admissions and the English media. What have you guys done with it except to deny the non Brahmin entrance into university, jobs etc until the Dravidian movement came into being to change that. It was a narrow minded elitist arrogant clique that prevented others. But every action has an equal and opposite reaction.
Yes the non Brahmin have also migrated to the cities but not the vast majority of the individual castes concerned. Many still remain on the land and did not forsake their patrimony. The Tamil Nad Brahmins left their agraharams gifted to them by our kings to nurture the Vedic tradition for us by the droves – 80% may have left for the cities to be clerks in the British administration. They forsake their obligation for personal gain.
And yes, what’s wrong if Brahmins carry the Brahmin dead to the funeral pyre? Do you want us to do it? What arrogance. Typical.
Tsk tsk, tsk, I seem to have touched a raw nerve in your hatred filled mind. You know you are typical of the Nehruvian political culture of silence when Hindus could not say they were Hindus. You want the same culture of silence from brahmins where we should not say we are brahmins. And woe betide us if we take pride in our heritage. You will deliberately project pride to be arrogance. But me dearie, I am a Tami brahmin woman and your having an apoplectic fit is not going to change that. And if you could stop jumping up and down for a moment you would realize that what I said was the brahmins who carry the dead of our community to the crematorium are still living in penury and their children are left out of the government’s affirmative programme. I did not say you should carry me when I am dead. And the brahmin cause is the Hindu cause because the brahmin is a part of the whole. When a part is injured it affects the health of the whole. Common sense I would have thought. But then your eyes are so blinded in hate you are not seeing or thinking clearly. And I will respond if you stick to the issue. Any further personalised attacks against me or my community, I will not dignify with a response.
i am Kashmiri Pandit and i see that we are engaging in exactly what the British wanted and then left secular liberals are carrying forward fighting among ourselves and not understating the bigger picture.
the Landscape of the vedic lifestyle was demolished by the British and the birth based corrupt varna system set in when the gurukulams were destroyed. and livelihood on the typical profile of a Learned Brahmin is impossible in the induced changed times. all belonging to the Hindu/Vedic/indic umbrella have to stand together as one in the new time only then do we stand a chance.
Why do you call yourself a Kashmiri Pandit and not a Kashmiri Hindu? Why the caste affiliation and not the religion affiliation?
i have no issue with that with that i only wanted make the point more pertinent to the context. Pandit is no varna (caste is the wrong word)
As a Sindhi, let me second Hard Truth. You should emphasize the big picture, not your varna.
what is the article about ? did your read it?
when the muslims wanted to convert to hinduism under zorawar singh, you pandits opposed it because they were shudras in your eyes. serves you right that you got kicked out.
i see 3 ignormous people agree with you. So you say that the people who would convert just to be on the right side are really some high Valued intellectuals ? then for the matter of Fact did Guru Gobind Singh covert to Islam? which you describe as embrace ? the fact is the moronery of ppl like yourself who are blind to logic and like to live in History. Assuming that what that people did 1200 years ago justifies what is being done now to the people who dont even remember what happened.? and if that is what you believe in that you should have no hesitation in accepting that karma is responsible for one to be born in as a lower intellectual . So next time you open your Mouth about thing that you have no idea about and search Google and hearsay think twice.
You did not touch a raw nerve and I had no fit. You give yourself far too much credit. If the Brahmins of Tamil Nad do not integrate and instead speak of caste pride as you just did, they will gradually become irrelevant as is happening. The Tamil Brahmin cause is not the Hindu cause. Hinduism will be better off without you. The article under consideration was by a loser. It was a whine while you in turn barked hatred and arrogance.
Radha Rajan was the Brahmin monster who killed Jallikattu. She cares more about cows and bulls than shudras. She’s obnoxious and is MS herself. You have been very reasoned and in turn you only got abuse. That’s the Brahmin for you. Ignore them. I have zero sympathy for their kind.
And you care more about “abusing Brahmin women” whether they are Brahminical in their identity, practice and views or not? You have no clue about engaging any woman intelligently and decently? Which community would want to associate with any man who is indecent and disrespectful to any woman…outside or inside his community? Integration must come with mutual respect and negotiation…not abuse and cunning. But Tamil Nadu has the highest number of “male drunkenness and domestic violence”. You never answer to those social and cultural problems…It is always looking for scapegoats like a person with a deep inferiority complex. I sugget like Michael Jackson you try face bleaching and plastic surgery…that might improve your self image. You seem to have very little of it. Men like you make themselves verbally violent and indecent…somehow expecting obedience and voluntary change.
After coming to Tamil Nadu and participating in some of these discussions I have become more grateful to my non-Tamilian influences, Brahminical values and North Indian experience. Thanks for the abuse…we know exactly what to leave behind. Enjoy company of yourself. Don’t ever call yourself Indian though.
Someone said to me years ago, “Tamil obsessed people by nature are not suited for democracy or diversity. After driving out upper castes, forward castes, fair skinned people, Hindi-speaking people, Sanskritized people, etc….they will start fighting among themselves. They are no different than the extremists and Jihadists. Is this true? Please answer with bullet points;
Do you not see the contradiction and the fundamental ugliness in your behaviors. You two want the most beautiful sweet educated sophisticated women…but you make yourself ugly personality wise. That is why you all need female obedience, subservience or violence..How else do you get women to marry ugly men like you? Ugliness has to do with character…not color.
Do you beat your woman into compliance and subservience?
A woman from Sudan told me she finds Tamil men confusing and very racist towards Africans. She wants to marry a Tamil Dravida like you…would you marry her? I would love to introduce you to her…would you marry her..? You hypocrite.
You are the one who is blinded in hate that you are not seeing or thinking clearly. Hard Truth did not attack Brahmins in his initial comment until you provoked him with your outburst. You went off at a tangent as you tend to do RR. Are you unhappy in your personal life? He initially called for integration and leadership – now that’s pro Brahmin, not anti.
Temerity, arrogance etc all arise from hate monger’s ignorance, in this case you. And you try attributing all that to those you hate, you hate monger.
Now some education for you: Yes targeting brahmins is no different from crime against women or old people or children. If YOU fail to understand that you hate monger, YOU remain the one who needs to be educated as to how and what and why of it. If YOU depend on others to be educated you hate mongering parasite, YOU are the one who qualifies not to judge but to learn.
As for universities if YOU cannot manage a seat without reservations it is YOUR vacuity that you are trying to cover up you hate monger. It is NOT a fault of those who have the merit and whose lives you hate mongers are destroying with state support, you parasite.
Well said.
Let me second you on that, Punya. In Pakistan, the Brahmins do not emphasize their caste thankfully. There is no talk of Brahmin pride as Radha Rajan talks of.
What do you mean by integration? You talk as if all Brahmins wear purdah and never come out of their houses.
How can they lead when they are despised and unwanted. But the same haters want to have concubinage with Brahmin women and marry Brahmin boys.
Brahmins have been thrown out of TN. Why beat a dead snake?
PROBLEMS ARE CREATED WHEN PEOPLE CLAIM THAT THEY ARE BRAHMINS OR UPPER CASTES
This is not just a Brahmin problem but affects the future of all Hindus. To kill someone, it’s easier to cut off the head than to cut the whole body piece by piece. Especially if the head is too weak to put up any resistance.
When will the Brahmin-Bania hegemony end?
http://www.livemint.com/Leisure/3u2QUPuXBEFPaBQXU2R8mJ/When-will-the-BrahminBania-hegemony-end.html
Sir, what is your point? I am writing because my account is labelled as guest as well. and I am certainly not a Brahmin, but also see the discrimination in the media against them. The article mentions these folks owning media, but then again, the fact that those who are actually practising brahmin lifestyle are in threat is the real point of contention
I am not a BRAHMIN but ANTI BRAHMINISM IS ANTI HINDUISM
I know, that is what they are trying to do, to kill the source of the knowledge. this needs to be talked about.
Educational, medical, managerial, consultancy etc work, on a pro bono basis, by English educated brahmins, especially amongst the needy belonging to the other varnas may hopefully start earning them some trust and respect!
There has been no dearth of such work by Brahmins in Tamil Nadu. As doctors, educators, journalists, etc, they have done yeoman service to the state from the time of Bharathi and U V Swaminatha Iyer.
The current repeat of the anti Hindu riots of the 60s in Tamil Nadu is driven by Christian fundamentalists, just as it was then.
A number of the Saiva and Vaishnava seers (Alwar, Nayanmar) were Brahmins. So, the Justice Party discourse about Sanskrit vs Tamil is a bad joke. Once the Brahmins were separated from the rest of the Hindu castes, it was a simple matter to fabricate a Christian Dravidian identity. This is a handiwork of the CIA, part of the “Breaking India ” nexus.
It is very late in the day for Hindus to not close ranks yet. The attack must be seen as an attack on Hindus, since it was made on Hindu priests, Brahmins. Please please, India, understand this.
Karthick and Krishna, I want to respectfully disagree. Paancha Janyan’s comment is a valid one. Both of you placed a ‘thumbs up’ on what was a very casteist and racist rant by “Dr” MS. He describes “some dravidian women” as ugly, he speaks of “dark versus fair”, he mentions “Brahmin pride” and describes “some Dravidian women” as “arrogant and mean”. He then arrogantly says that “Hinduism will die” in Tamil Nadu. What nonsense is he writing? I would have ignored him but you guys approved of his comment. The sooner we stop talking about Brahmins the better. We are Hindus. The word “Dravidian” meant southern Brahmin in ancient Sanskrit. If “some Dravidian women are ugly and uncouth” as MS writes, is he then attacking the women of his own caste? I repeat, the Brahmins in Tamil Nadu need to integrate and be part of the leadership, not throw pot shots from the side. The latter strategy is doomed to failure. And please do not now divide the Saiva and Vaishnava saints on caste lines. They transcend caste. I do not intend to insult either of you. Its just a respectful comment. To say that Hinduism will die is a cardinal sin in my books. It never will.
Dear Hard Truth,
I don’t see caste as a division in a negative sense. I see it as a function and disagree with the current trend to mark it an evil in today’s society. It has been misinterpreted and fossilized severely, but it should be reformed not abandoned. That is my thought on this.
I believe MS is a woman, and although she did rant, I can identify with her anguish. If you are familiar with the ridicule heaped on Brahmins in Tamil Nadu in real life and movies, you would sympathize with her. When EVR said Brahmin women should be common property and the masses did not condemn him, it touched a deep nerve as a Brahmin.
I only mentioned the castes of saints (who transcend caste) in response to Paancha Janyan’s call for pro bono volunteers. If you read my previous comment , I specifically mentioned it was an attack on all Hindus. So I am not a caste divider.
Brahminism is the apex of a social pyramid that depends on a strong base. A Brahmin was entitled to little by way of comforts in the past. Learning was his calling. Both the Brahmin and the society that supported him were at a level of evolution beyond the comprehension of today’s “Hindus”.
Nevertheless, I agree that Brahmins have to organize in Tamil Nadu, and other sympathetic organizations should support their organization in the greater interest of Hindu society.
Your words are true.Just sharing few thoughts,which are of contemporary relevance–
For today`s reality,we need to identify ourselves as Hindus, instead of other divided identities.We need to remember, and if possible replicate, the vedic way of living–which is peaceful, natural and open-minded.
And secondly,caste is not as negative as few so-called intellectuals made it out to be.Caste is a social system–and as a system,it has advantages,rules and few disadvantages.But that does not mean we need to “annihilate the caste” ;we just need to modify it for the present context.There is a HUGE discourse happening today, to kill the caste–but, few learned scholars and intellectuals know that it is not possible, neither is it desirable for the holistic future of Indian society.And these discourses are at the heart of breaking the country–to atomize the society, and then exploit it for commercial purposes.
In my experience and historical knowledge(though I am not a Brahmin), Brahmins were always selfless in their attitude and were longing for knowledge.And all the ideological movements against them are not only Anti-Hindu, but also Anti-Indian.The hatred filled agenda oriented movements are presently in evaporating phase;we need not to fall prey to those divisive thoughts, that are, unfortunately pervasive today.
Once again Sir with sincere respect. Why do both Saturnsson and you have to qualify your statements by saying that both of you are non Brahmin.
Because, unless and until if a person is born and brought up in a Brahmin family, he can not understand the consequences of all the ideological hatred that is being spread against them.And disclosing a Jati(and NOT caste) identity is not a bad thing, right??
Note:For all those interested in debating about EVR;I think it is time that we realize that he is(was) an Anti-Indian,with divisive-separatist agendas.We need to forget him,please,please,and please.And his contributions, if any, have really had disastrous effects to the social milieu in India.We should be an Indian first.No more arguments.
I agree. All Hindus should close ranks like Christians and Muslims do. When it is found that the rapist of a Christian nun is a Muslim, stop the rant immediately. No more minority rights needed.
In a similar fashion, Hindus should grow the attitude of saying “we will take care of our problems “, and actually engage all sections within. That is the first step towards self rule.
Have the courage to call a spade a spade even if it EVR. Two generations have been blinded by the Dravidian identity discourse. Stop it now, Tamil Nadu.
As a related point, all Tamils should voluntarily learn one other Indian language, preferably Sanskrit, to ensure the language chauvinism card is not played to destroy Hindu unity. Anyone who knows a couple of Indian languages will learn to take pride in our common Hindu heritage.
Please pardon my ignorance…is your comment intended to be sarcastic??
what hindu reform. you reform yourself first.
I have reformed myself and I am confident about it.By Hindu reform, I meant that Hindus need to know the principles/philosophy of their own Religion to tackle with the ubiquitous pseudo-intellectuals.And today, the world,more than any single selfish individual with personal ideologies, needs a Hindu awakening.No more agendas/hatred.
Thank You
I don’t understand why you felt I was being sarcastic. I was being honest and was calling for Hindus to unite, but in Tamil Nadu that should not exclude Brahmins by any means.
Thank You.I understood it now.( Too much of confusions/distortions regarding this topic , in recent times….in my mind!!! )
you say that two generations have been blinded by Dravidian identity discourse. you have been blinded by brahmin discourse. shame on you.
Do you know through which discourse you are not only blinded but also blindfolded?No shame to anyone; but to that singular identity known as Truth, about which no one cares.
Shame is not on me, just because you say so. There has been no Brahmin discourse in public because of the terrorism practised by Dravidian parties. I reiterate that the Dravidian theory has been imposed to serve foreign masters. Tamils should stop being so chauvinistic about language, and understand the basis of the current discourse.
But Hindus can not close ranks if people like you prioritize your caste and defend Miss MS.
I did not prioritize caste. Read all my comments together and make sense of them as a whole.
All I said wrt MS was that I understand the hurt. You know very well everything EVR said about Brahmins, and is still being puppetted by people like “Punya Veerasingham” and “Ambedkarite”. The moment Brahmins even start pointing out historical events, there is a shout fest calling them “paapaan”, etc. Incidentally, Paaapan derives from Paarpanar, which means astronomer. So, thanks for the compliment, whoever said it.
I am a north Indian and I would not have a problem learning Tamil. Only we need to provide these things in the schools. I would have loved to learn other languages, and now I realise what they did with our education, anglicised it so much that we barely have any understanding of our own languages. I love languages, but I particularly love Indian languages, they touch my soul.
absolutely agreed!!
Brahmins will be Brahmins only if the social system allows it. The present system is a highly materialistic one where riches indicate a person’s worth to society.
Anglo American interests are well served by sellers of atrocity literature in India, such as the Teestas and the Selvanayagams. This is used to shame us using the handy tool of human rights. The worst violators of humanity in the world preach human rights.
When the Mlecchas came to India, scholars did understand the underlying assumptions of their way of life and counter them. The British, for decades, compiled everything they saw about Hindu society. They realized that the Brahmins stood between the ‘word’ and Hindu society. They were able to subtly and cunningly isolate them by misinterpreting customs. In this, they were also aided by some other upper castes competing for scholarly positions, such as Mudaliars and Naickers.
So in the end, the British divide and rule policy worked so well that the CIA had no trouble working out a Dravidian movement even after they left!
do defend the indefensible with your twice born diarrhea
And you keep vomiting the same undigested low caste crap.
where are the Brahmins now YOU CLING TO YOUR BIRTH TO CLAIM YOURSELVES AS BRAHMINS
Read the first line of my previous comment.
sree charan, do not pretend. you sound brahmin to me. be honest.
I agree with you Punya.
No.I am not a brahmin. And I am honest.Good Bye.It seems that there is a group here deliberately spreading hatred in the comments column;please do not do it.
You make it sound as if to be a brahmin is a heinous crime or worse to be a brahmin and speak up for brahmins is heinous sin. People like you must come to terms with the new truth that brahmins are no longer intellectually defenceless and also come to terms with the fact that I am undeterred by abuse. I simply will not respond. But speaking up for gentle and courteous Sree Charan is another matter altogether.
Mr.Hard Truth, first of all I am a woman. Anyone who writes confidently is immediately labeled as a “he”? Very telling. Very sexist! You prove my point about Tamilian, Dravidian or even some South Indian Brahmin sexism.
My writing was neither a rant nor racist. In fact I am writing about the racist Dravidian, which has been a new experience for me…returning to Tamil Nadu. I made it clear that I did not think of myself Brahmin this or Brahmin that…up until I came to Tamil Nadu. After returning to Tamil Nadu I suddenly felt there was an unfair attack on me and people like me for silly shallow reasons: like my name, our accent or some sectarian customs. It is like someone making fun of you for having a Madurai or Coimbatore accent, and having a name like Mahalingam or ThangaRaj.
I am no longer interested in listing Brahmin contribution. I am not looking for Dravidian approval or acceptance. It is like a smart women who chooses to leave what is fundamentally a trailer park psychology. I gain…and you loose. Full stop. I do not want to engage in what will be your arrogant argument. If you don’t like us you don’t. And no matter what I say you are going to disparage. But I don’t want to change the good things in my values and community just because you think it is Brahmin or Brahmincal. Do you disparage Lincoln for being White or Anglo..though he was willing to go into a civil war to abolish slavery and emancipate Blacks?
I admit that some Brahmins were too puritanical, arrogant and a bit aloof…but how does that require an entire policy of discrimination?
My experience in Tamil Nadu has been shocking, confusing, disgusting and at times frightening experience. There are many stories to tell. How would you like it if “a faculty in schools of social work shouts at public forums that Dravidians sleep with their sisters, daughters or daughters-in-law…” which is what a disgustingly loud faculty of social work (social work!!! in India) was spewing out about Brahmins in Chennai, and another one (a Christians) was spewing out at TISS. I sat there listening with my mouth open…disgusted and shocked.
I also wondered about these people’s sanity. In an effort to make themselves look important and defend their insecure ego…they try to disparage communities that actually have a high puritanical standards. In the end your silence or confusion or shock only gives them more ego and evil to continue these kinds of awfulness. For these kinds of comments many of you deserve to be categorized as evil, dangerous, liars and hypocritical, It is like the Vatican preaching about morality while committing acts of pedophelia. Dravidians, and some cunning forward castes, converted or not converted, project their disgusting issues on to other community. For this evil they certainly deserve to be seriously punished, When you say these disgusting things as a faculty with no research or data…or purely made up data…you are practicing evil…pure evil.
The stupidity of Brahmins in Tamil Nadu is that the do not know how to fight the good fight…and fight hard. They are so passive, impotent and carry an enslaved psychology. they remain quiet amidst these kinds of disgusting allegations..
I am a fighter but how do you fight effectively when Tam Brahms in Tamil Nadu are not organized, smart, shrewd and know how to hit back hard and firm…without apology when lies about them are circulated and character assassinations are made. They are better at yelling at each other, arguing with each other and playing petty ego politics or personality politics with each other.
Hard Truth…you sound like an arrogant preacher…while the two men you are addressing sound like a typical Tamil idiots who cannot communicate confidently and firmly.
I will communicate firmly and confidently: Stop your diatribe and your preaching and your racism. And stop twisting what I wrote, and cunningly saying the opposite of what I said and mean.
You are showing yourself to be an arrogant evil man.
Shut up and read before you spew out your racism towards me…and twisting what i say in a very cunning way.
Its just past midnight here in Chennai. Continue with the rant, the hatred, the bile and the venom. It only indicates why the Tamil Brahmin was sidelined. You prove my point.
This site’s quality is being lowered by articles such as this. The readership is limited largely to Brahmins and hence does not reflect the larger Hindu reality. I repeat, opposing the exclusivist claims of Tamil Nad Brahmins is not anti Hindu. You are a vicious paapaan like RR.
Hard Truth,
While I did attempt to engage you, it is interesting that you were able to run to big daddy EVR based on MS’ single comment. Says a lot.
While MS’ rant does seem highly judgemental on Tam Brahm idiots, I tend to agree with many of her points.
Dr MS,
Please don’t think Tam Brahms are all idiots. When the rules of the game were changed, it took the Brahmins the longest to change because of their deepest understanding of the loss to society. That doesn’t mean he cannot adapt.
What goes up comes down. In Tamil Nadu, the Christian Dravidian nexus is near its peak due to several factors. The Church is an old hand and the problem is not simple. If you are serious about what you say, do organize.
why are you so apologetic about MS – a virago feminist who hates men. just because she’s brahmin. you support her lies.
Karthick be intellectually consistent. Hard Truth was subdued while MS was like a lesbian volcano erupting. You need to be more tolerant of dissenting opinion rather than support your own caste who screams from the roof top. I am from Sindh and we are not Brahmins. Does that mean we are inferior?
You are behaving just like a racist thug cops who have been beating up on Blacks in the US. When your Karuna (Sanskrit for compassion) Nidhi was beating up on Hindus did you defend them? Did you? This is exactly what the riots in Baltimore are about. Blacks are harassed, assaulted, denied opportunities and even killed…and then people wonder why they are protesting and rioting. You are behaving just like the thuggish Anglo cops. You use words like Paapan…which is equivalent to the “N” word. Stop using derogatory words. You want to expand the temple…who is stopping you? Why do you disparage me or others because of some temple need of yours. I am talking about scholarship and research…and how that is being weakened by the likes of you.
Good night. I cannot be talking to block heads.
shut up you brahmin block head.
periyar was the best. down with the twice born.
Punya, Veera and Singham are all Sanskrit words
you are a fascist living in America. you are perhaps christian too with your garbage.
Yes…I am a Goddess. Learn to respect and worship that. And with your name it is obvious that you are not an Indian…but from a neighboring country trying to assert your petty ego. Try it in the US or anywhere else…and see what you get. But tolerant India puts up with third rate men who get personally vindictive with women. You need to return to you country and point your third rate aggression elsewhere. It is obvious that you are a fundamentalist because you seem to project that on others. Too victorian too. Veer or Veeram in Sanskrit and Tamil means courage. You have none of that. You are an “ignorant coward” using attack and arguments, like ghetto trailer park trash, to up yourself. You cannot even argue well.
The very fact that you are using personal ideologies/battles/agendas/abuses rather than arguing with the opponent intellectually signifies that you are unfit for any honest discussion.You can always enjoy in your own self-created imaginary arrogant world, with all the comforts that any human being can(-not) dream of !!
Thank You
o shut up you paapaati
You think you have scored victory by using a derogatory word?
That’s the level of discussion you can offer, at best.
See ya never.
Sir, I do not know what the word you used means. But it does not sound polite and it makes you sound unkind.
you have lost all credibility with your racist thug cop hatred of shudras.
Brahmins only create trouble. They do not do social service. You are the cause of all our problems, a cobra snake that kills.
No, you are the foreign funded devils that have destroyed Indian society. Chameleons!
BRAHMINS CREATE PROBLEM WHEN THEY CLAIMTO BE BRAHMINS .majority of peope donot relish this attitude
Not quite. Have you created the trust in brahmins that their work will not be thankless when they are already victims of affirmative action?
Frankly I am sick and tired of this discussion, and the apologists, the defensive people and the clueless scared people who sit around and throw their two cents in when some “I am a Dravidian and I am the true Native scum bag of Tamil Nadu” shows up on the net. I am writing because I was sent this article and got tired of it.
Here is something you need to know:
My food delivery person is a 62 year old Iyer maama, with no time to even cut his hair properly and to fix his teeth, few of which he lost in a scooter accident, He works fifteen to eighteen hours a day to pay the college fees of his two sons who are smart, but have to compete with idiots who harass them in college, who have entitlements and think the whole world should worship Thamizh.. while their Tamil leader has a name Stalin and his father’s name is Sanskrit Karuna. Who are the fooling?
But idiots in the State only know how to hit out at that poor man while he struggles like thousands of other Tamilians of all castes and creed.
That Iyer maama has little savings, and his wife worked through her surgery, through her pain and through her misery, by selling her gold mangal sutra, so she can help her husband during his lean season. He comes to beg for money to pay for his son’s birthday gift, and to pay for a bus ticket to visit his mother. Many non-Brahmins are like him too. So what did this great DMK state achieve. It just drove Brahmins down and felt good like an evil vengeful awful despot. Now they are down and totally humbled what are you gaining from it. I am not a Tamilian but Indian first…so I will challenge idiots no matter where. So don’t play mind games or thugs games with me using Ayya this or Ayya that, or Dravida this or Dravida that.
This passive nice once-Brahmin gentleman is on time, takes feedback well and works his butt off for every Rupee he earns. He could not hire a single Tamil worker for delivery because they wanted big money, scooter, car, biryani and liquor. One idiot left food outside my door because he was too lazy to ring the bell and wanted to join his friends for liquor consumption provided by the great Tamil government that spells all English words and Arabic words in Thamizh. Great achievement. Frankly…get over yourself. Being a little better than Bihar is not an achievement, and apologize for hurting smart women like me who never lived in this State, never studied here and never went to college here…never took one paisa from the government…yet you disparage me. How dare you? You let amazing talents and skills be degraded by that third rate arrogant fools in the State. How dare you? I am not going to let this State turn me into a fat sad faced Jaya Lalita controlled by crooks and rogues. Does that woman ever smile in Tamil Nadu?
What do you think I am supposed to show? I am supposed to show utter humility and touch some of your arrogant male non-Brahmin or Brahmin or whatever feet like your subservient wives and battered sisters? Get over yourself…And next time I get bullying and mean spirited comments…your comments will be sent to the CBI.
Thank goodness there other States besides Tamil Nadu for Tamilians….like me. Otherwise many men on this website would have lynched me long ago. Thamizh pattru with Stalin as the lead. Whose ear are you guys trying to pierce?
I will correct what is wrong…but will never put up with lies, bullying and outright verbal or electronic lynching.
Samje…kayaa rae thamizh log, thum sab saaraen Bharat say badaa aadamee sochthay ho? Uh?