Published On: Sat, Mar 14th, 2015

I too am India’s Daughter

It was several months ago, sitting in the dentist’s chair, something I look very little forward to… that I heard the question. “Why is it that your culture treats women so badly?”  Now, I must tell you the question brought a rather odd sensation within me. Have I ever been treated badly as a woman by my culture? What exactly would that mean anyway?  A version of the “ when did you stop beating your wife?”  Question: “When did your husband stop beating you?” I was asked, as I sat there clawing the arms of a chair with anxious anticipation, mouth gaping, not just with surprise but with an uncomfortably sweet foaming gel, no less.

I am sure people of all kinds have faced difficulties, injustices. So have I. The picture of society my culture, my family, my mother and grandmother related to me was one in which everyone should strive for a measure of justice, be able to strive for happiness through their difficulties; one in which one learned to act with respect, and find a way to receive it. My culture taught me one should exercise one’s prerogatives thoughtfully, as well as respect the customs and prerogatives of others. My father often said this to me as I was growing up: “Be independent. Earn your own income and never be dependent on anyone else for your living.” That was the way my culture and my family treated me: as a capable, responsible and self-driven person who could and should take responsibility for their own growth and well-being.

If there is anywhere I have faced difficulty, injustice or discomfort as a woman, it is in the West, where I receive the message daily, that the only way I can be happy as a woman is if I am dating a worthy man. That the only route to be happy as a woman is to be thin and pretty. Even my seven year old daughter  is fed popular culture filled with these ideas.  Essentially, being a woman in the West involves giving up the right to self-respect, to individual happiness. It means to conform to some airbrushed picture off the cover of People magazine.

I remember well watching a news mag show on the Oscars last year. An older actress, considered a beauty in her day, Kim Novak, I think, showed up to present an award. Her face was lined with age, as I am certain she is well over 70 years of age. The news show host declared that such an old woman should really not present herself in public. I’m not sure now if the word ‘hag’ was used, but it may as well have been. Mind you, an actress spends an entire lifetime producing a body of work that everyone lauds. And at the end of that career, this artist, this public figure is expected to purdah herself because she is no longer a 22 year old?

At the Filmfare awards last year, Kamini Kaushal, a daughter of India who was a leading lady of Indian films in the 1960s, on the other hand, stood up on a stage graceful, natural, her hair grey, and while receiving her Lifetime Achievement Award, described the joys of her professional life, the  colleagues she had lost, and the work she had done creating puppet shows for children. She was greeted by a standing ovation. And in the mark of respect so characteristic of my tradition, actors of the generations that followed her bent their heads to touch her feet and obtain her blessings.

[pullquote]Essentially, being a woman in the West involves giving up the right to self-respect, to individual happiness.[/pullquote]

If you ask me, I would rather come from a culture and tradition that allows a woman to age gracefully, to pursue the fulfilment of her life’s work without regard to her appearance, instead of feeding her with so much personal insecurity that she behaves as though her only real worth lies in how pleasing she is to the eyes of men. I would rather come from a tradition that allows a woman to remain natural, real, rather than one that shames her into pumping herself with so much Botox and tissue expanders that she appears plastic, and still needs to feel ashamed to show herself in public. I would rather come from a culture that respects a woman’s experience and accomplishments, rather than discarding or dismissing her because of her age or her looks.

As a woman, I would rather come from a culture that told me stories of women warriors, like Queen Laxmibai, of defiant queens like Rani Padmini, of women freedom fighters like Sarojini Naidu, and celebrates powerful goddesses like Mata Kali. I would rather come from a culture that does not see a woman as a doll, a plaything for the use and benefit of men. Yet, that is how I hear women treated all the time in the West.

[contextly_sidebar id=”nKEfURdEijtqs3g9wjtyZCJrK3oXmF8N”]

Let me relate a conversation over cocktails. Some friends and acquaintances of mine gathered at a hotel lobby after a charity event. The women, accompanied by their husbands, were dressed in fashionable, glittering and in some cases low-cut clothes. A woman dressed in a tight bandeau dress accompanied a man in a suit to the Registration desk. Two of the guys saw them and started muttering to each other. One of them is a friend of mine, a family man and a responsible father.  The other I don’t know too well, and furthermore, he’s a politician by profession so I hesitate to vouch for his character. The two men were speculating that the young woman was a prostitute. Now this is at 9 pm at a 4 star hotel, in the midst of decidedly upper middle class company.

Surely if my friends in the West are to take the thoughts of a convicted rapist—whom Indian jurisprudence has condemned—as emblematic of societal views, then I can take the word of a decent family man and an elected official as emblematic of Western views on women. From it, I can only conclude that the West as a whole – America, Europe and the lot – view women as “meat”, and nothing more. This must be how you treat your wives, raise your daughters and view your sisters too, I suppose. Someone, fund my documentary and give me permission to tape please.

[pullquote]I would rather come from a culture that does not see a woman as a doll, a plaything for the use and benefit of men. [/pullquote]

My point is simply this. Nothing could be more demeaning to “India’s daughters”, of whom I am one, than to suggest that we should understand our grandfathers, fathers, husbands, brothers and sons through the views of a convicted rapist, or his ilk. We don’t take instruction on how to live from people who do evil deeds. That doesn’t make us backwards or repressed. It is a humble sign of a modicum of our intelligence. We take instruction on such topics, well, from our strong and independent-minded mothers. We aren’t going to suggest that you watch documentaries that propagate the rantings of the KKK and serial killers to understand your men either. Because we aren’t disrespectful, stupid or ill-bred. Our mothers made sure of that.

Which brings up another point. To portray the male population of India as inherently rapist (in thought, if not word and deed) is to smear their mothers, grandmothers, aayahs, schoolteachers – indeed all those women who brought them up. If, as this Leslie Udwin suggests, culture is to blame, then how, after all is culture transmitted? Culture is not some abstract entity that insinuates itself somehow in our lives. It is the people who raise us that acculturate us. If there is, in fact a “rape mind-set” amongst Indian men, then how did they arrive at this mind-set? Who fed it to them? Who nurtured their minds? Who reinforced this purportedly ingrained thinking? In India, much like most of the world, by and large, this means women, mostly mothers. They lay down the blueprint. The inescapable conclusion one reaches from Leslie Udwin’s film is that India’s daughters are simply incapable of raising their own children – at the least their own sons – properly. Indian mothers are unable to do what every other human society manages to: raise children capable of being sound moral beings.

If the public interest served by this documentary is to declare all India’s sons immoral and all India’s daughters moral cretins, forgive us demurring to say that this film isn’t instructive to a lot of us. Rather, it denigrates us en masse.  It isn’t “the-rapy”. It’s just another form of rape. It’s just “rap-y”.

If we want to keep women, or anyone else safe in India (or anywhere else), we should strengthen families and traditions, police the streets, and display zero tolerance for any kind of disrespectful behavior. Let’s teach women and men in urban areas about self-defence, to walk home together for safety. Let’s increase the penalty for transgressions. Let’s strengthen security at every urban corner. Guess what, the people of India – men AND women, because our men care equally about the safety of their mothers, sisters and daughters- have already responded to the horrific crime that this documentary purports to portray by making just these kinds of demands.

The Indian populace of Delhi took a tragic victim of a horrendous crime at the hands of depraved sociopaths and turned that into a movement, a demand for actual change. They christened India’s daughter “Nirbhaya” (which means fearless). THAT was the story they decided to script for their own society. They resolved that India’s daughters should live fearlessly: demanded that the police and the judiciary create circumstances that allow Indian women  to flourish in safety. That was how the convict portrayed in this documentary ended up in Tihar jail on Death Row well before Leslie Udwin decided to offer him a microphone so he could presumably exercise “the right of free speech” he forfeited upon committing this horrific crime. Surely, given these circumstances, it is fair to ask precisely how this film is supposed to further the interests if the Indian public? Let me take you back for a  moment to that dreadful dental chair, where I sat startled by the odd question.  “Why is it your culture treats women so badly?”

Clearly, the question was intended to be rhetorical. Rhetorical in two senses: firstly, my dentist could not possibly have expected an answer given my state; secondly, she clearly had already formed a conclusion about my culture that the question merely begged. My interlocutor had already decided upon an answer. In that sense, this was no honest question. Perhaps that is why I felt speechless, (never mind being physically speechless given the circumstances). Horrified AND speechless. And perhaps speechlessness is the only possible response when someone is, after all, only pretending to talk to you, while actually enjoying a conversation with themselves.

The director of “India’s Daughter” claims her film should be viewed and debated, even by those who might not agree with her. On the surface, this seems such a reasonable stance. Until you realize that her film is merely a full-length movie version of my dentist’s question. This film only concludes what it has already presupposed.  There is no scope for a conversation or a debate in these circumstances. There is nothing to learn. In fact, there is less than nothing to learn.

Just in case some of my well-meaning and wonderful friends and acquaintances in the West are interested in an actual conversation: no, I did not become an educated, professional woman through my tradition’s mal-treatment. Rather, I grew to become an educated, professional woman, with an independent intellect and a refined conscience through the care and nurture of my culture, and due to the knowledge imparted by the men and women who are my ancestors, who gifted to me my heritage through my parents, which heritage I will impart in turn to my own daughter, who will also thereby be another one of India’s fearless daughters. And that, ultimately, is what Nirbhaya’s ordeal will mean to India and her daughters.

And another thing: the fact of the matter is that, even if America manages to elect a woman President next year, the older democracy will be 50 years—a full half century—behind its younger counterpart in according political leadership to a woman.

So there.

About the Author

- Satya is a physician who was born in Delhi and lives in the US. She has a 7 year old daughter, enjoys watching documentaries that are edifying, and is learning to get over her fear of dentistry.


Displaying 74 Comments
Have Your Say
  1. Yogesh Yogendra Solanki says:

    Very good article, well thought, and very well put together. Rape is course bad but propaganda of is really worst. People not only from West but our own Indians living in US also shout much more than necessary. Media, has made this chat pati khabar. All the media – Indian as well as International are enjoying this. Groups created and discussion are formed to cure this evil. Medications are prescribed by so called intellectuals and good character people. C’mon give me a break, if there is a dirt on your face then how can you tell me my face is ugly ! Rape is already happened now they rape India also, by abusing so bad. India and Indian became easy target. This is very well planned conspiracy of other countres to defame India. This country of 1.2 billion has not yet learned how to command. They have lost, confidence in their capabilities, in their culture as well as their Dharma, and our politicians as well as Bollywood is responsible for that. We do not have to import any values, my culture and my Dharma teaches me the best values but these imported Western values – open mindedness – advancement – corrupts my culture.

  2. Satya says:

    A Rape on Campus: A Brutal Assault and Struggle for Justice at UVA:

    http://rol.st/1yStBLf.

  3. Kanagaraj Easwaran says:

    Excellent Dr. Satya. You have exposed the western stereotypes on India. You have also show how the west treats its women and how they are treated in India. Please write more.

  4. Kalavai Venkat says:

    Dr. Satya, a superb article. In particular, I wanted to comment on your sentence: “If we want to keep women, or anyone else safe in India (or anywhere else), we should strengthen families and traditions, police the streets, and display zero tolerance for any kind of disrespectful behavior. Let’s teach women and men in urban areas about self-defence, to walk home together for safety.”

    This prescription is the correct one to deter rape. The scientific study, “The Impact of Victim Self-Protection on Rape Completion and Injury” by Gary Kleck and Jongyeon Tark confirms that non-weapon-based defense is the best deterrent once a woman finds herself in a rape situation. Likewise, strengthening families is the best way to deny opportunities for the rapists as I explain in http://indiafacts.co.in/examining-the-wests-culture-of-rape/ and http://indiawires.com/17375/news/national/reclaiming-the-sacred-feminine-in-the-aftermath-of-delhi-gang-rape/ .

  5. Satya says:

    Dear Readers,

    I fear some of you are missing the message altogether. I’m not saying that all Western men see women as “meat”. That would mean doubting many people I respect and valued friendships I’ve made over the years. I’m simply pointing out how absurd it would be to reduce Western culture in its entirety to the things I’ve heard my friends say.

    To do so in this case would not help solve any problems in any case. Let’s for one moment assume (as some of you have) that rape is inherent to Indian culture, that it is present (if latent) in all Indian men (including your fathers and brothers). Following that assumption to its logical end suggests the only solution is to wipe out Indian culture. What would that mean? Hang all Indian men? Sterilze all Indian women and put up their existing children for adoption? The logic of this assumption is that Indians must stop being Indian in order to safeguard women who live in or visit India from rape. Of course, as Arun points out, this is scarcely a new line of thinking. It’s been around for as long as the West has known of India. It’s spawned movements in the West that many present day Westerners would recoil from: racial supremacy, Macaulayism, to name a few. Even if we found a way to shed our culture (but how?), that is no guarantee that we will then be rid of rape in our society; it simply can’t be denied that crime against women exists in other cultures as well.

    Every society has its own mores for acceptable behavior. There is no human society, including the West where a woman (or man) avoids judgment on the basis of their appearance. I’ve seen teens in urban India wear spaghetti straps and cutoffs that any respectable family in central Pennsylvania would be aghast at. Depending on the part of town you’re in, or the situation, women can get “eve-teased” or groped in New York or Philadelphia as well.

    Never should a woman be harassed on the streets for any reason. (And that goes for the goons who threaten women to stop wearing jeans.)

    The answer, however, cannot lie, and I hope I’ve shown, does not lie in condemning an entire culture. That approach only takes us further from viable solutions.

    Finally, over the last 5 or so centuries, the rest of the world, and in particular India, has learned a great deal from the West, and all the great things it has to offer. Over these same 500 years, what exactly has the West learned from India?

    Wouldn’t it benefit our Western brethren to stop and consider this question, to introspect on why the transfer of cultural knowledge has been a one way street? So far, the West (and I suppose the rest of the world) has assumed this is because of the West’s cultural superiority. But if that is the case, it’s fair to ask why do so many around the world hang on to their traditions and practices even after 500 or more years of exposure to Western culture? I think it is to the benefit of the world to challenge such quietly made assumptions.

    Thanks for reading,
    Satya

  6. disqus_DMuQq6LCOD says:

    While it’s true that India started fighting back and making change happen far before this documentary was released, the fact is – Indian culture does have a problem with treating women badly. Let’s own up to that. Yes, Indian culture encourages us Indian women to speak up and be assertive. And yes, it’s also about aging gracefully. But what about Fair & Lovely, and our obsession with darkness? What about our obsession with “marrying girls off”, god forbid they’re single when they’re 30 and don’t have a man to depend on?? More importantly, not only is there high female infanticide (which can be seen in the huge difference in number of men vs women) but there’s low literary rate in India among women especially (http://www.mapsofindia.com/my-india/society/low-female-literacy-rate-and-its-impact-on-our-society-2) and high amount of dowry deaths (http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Dowry-deaths-One-woman-dies-every-hour/articleshow/22201659.cms), which I may add, only affect women. Not to mention, a high amount of widow burnings, especially in rural settings. Are we saying this is not part of Indian culture? To deny this is to leave a huge part of Indian culture out. Let’s stop being defensive, and let’s stop making excuses just because we’re upset at “the west” for making assumptions about our culture. To make excuses is akin to being ignorant about our own flaws. Sorry.

  7. Satya says:

    I thoroughly disagree with Dr. Satya and her blog and here are my reasons

    1) She is comparing the good in Indian society to the bad in the Western society, this fails because this is an apples to oranges comparison. You cannot compare the good in one to the bad in another, how is that a fair comparison

    2) She talks about Botox in the West about a woman and her insecurity about aging, does she forget that she lives in the land of Fair and Lovely? The land where women use Henna on their hair, Multani Mitti, Tumeric, Sandalwood etc or does she only have an issue with chemicals and not natural products used to cover the same insecurity?

    3) On the contrary to point 2, women in India are looked at like they were s**ts if they dressed up, they used to pass comments on girls to that effect. What is wrong with trying to look good? Going by that insane logic, the burka is very respectful towards women.

    4) The main issue I have with this is, it goes back to the logic, I am not bad because I think you are worse. Why does it matter what the other person or their society is, lets look at ours in isolation and fix it if there is an issue, if the others dont fix their issues then it is their loss

    • Arun says:

      Leslee Udwin uses the words of a convicted rapist that India put into jail as representative of all men in India. So Dr. Satya used the words of a respectable middle class person as representative of all men in America. This is fair play.

      • Satya says:

        Arun, sorry but your reply doesn’t display that you have actually read what I had to say and is a generic comment. Secondly what you are saying doesn’t make any sense either, the documentary was not to represent all men in India, but the mind of a rapist in India. Wouldn’t you like to hear what they actually believe? I would, because they are the criminals. First I dont know what this has to do with USA, when Leslee Udwin is British. Also, please read my last point “4) The main issue I have with this is, it goes back to the logic, I am not bad because I think you are worse. Why does it matter what the other person or their society is, lets look at ours in isolation and fix it if there is an issue, if the others dont fix their issues then it is their loss”.

        • Arun says:

          I guess too late that you must not be Dr Satya. If the documentary represented only the mindset of some rapist in jail and not of most men in India, Dr Satya’s dentist would not have asked her that question when she were in the dentist chair.

          Second, Dr Satya who, per the blurb is in the US, generalized an attitude using what a respectable upper middle class person said, which is far more likely to be representative of a society as a whole than some criminal in jail. Nobody said that we don’t have a problem and we don’t have a lot to fix. But the fact is that all through the history of Western imperialism, the West used such issues (alleged defects in the colonized society that the colonized society was incapable of addressing or even recognizing) as their justification for conquest. A nice example of this is Lord Cromer, 19th century Brit ruling Egypt, very “concerned” about Egyptian women’s rights, but against women’s suffrage and education in England. And you have heard of the “White Man’s Burden” I hope. Though the colonial empires have evaporated, the mindset that produced them is still very much there and is exhibited in this documentary.

          • Satya says:

            Sorry dude, but against with no disrespect your argument is full of holes. Lets tackle them one by one. 1) What does the Dentists question have to do with the Documentary? The Dentist could have asked the question without seeing the documentary. Also, barely anybody has seen the documentary in the US, so I’m pretty confident about my assumption. Also what is wrong with the question, it is perfectly valid. I just don’t know the context in which it was asked. Could have been because of something as simple as killing female babies or dowry deaths. How inhumane acts they are it is. 2) So are you telling me that your primary issue is that this documentary was made by an English woman and not an Indian? Because that is all I’m hearing here is your primary contention that the West is hypocritical about the treatment of women. Let me ask you to forget for a second that this was made by a Non-Indian, now would it change anything? For me no, because I think the truth is the truth irrespective of it is from an Indian or an alien. 3) How is the issue of rape and ill treatment of women in India a smaller issue than “White Man’s Burden”? It doesn’t even compare to be in the same league. For all I care they can continue to be hypocritical about themselves all they want, the real issue that needs to be dealt with is women and their empowerment and thereby reducing crimes against them.

          • Arun says:

            Argue with Dr. Satya, not with me: “Surely if my friends in the West are to take the thoughts of a convicted
            rapist—whom Indian jurisprudence has condemned—as emblematic of
            societal views, then I can take the word of a decent family man and an
            elected official as emblematic of Western views on women.”

          • Satya says:

            My original post was for her, so of course my argument is with her, but didn’t realize all you are doing is copying her statement and when you cannot defend it ask me to go back to the source. Yes the views of the rapists and most importantly the lawyers defending them are representative of how women are treated in India which is deplorable and has to change. How many in your family and friends have taken Dowry? Ask yourself that question honestly to know what place women have in India.

    • Arun says:

      One should be aware of the Western Industry of “Atrocity Literature” in which the horribleness of Asian and African cultures is highlighted to extract funds from donors for NGOs that have highly paid CEOs and staff. If you want to improve India, do it within India with Indian resources.

      • Satya says:

        Can we please stay with the topic on hand, which is rape and women in India, not NGO’s and funds and what they do with it. Also are you telling me that there are no issues? Lastly, what are you doing to help people in India?

        • Arun says:

          One of the issues at hand is why the BBC produced such a documentary. It is because it feeds their atrocity/NGO industry.

          I’m not saying there are no issues. I’ll go with this:
          http://www.firstpost.com/living/indias-daughter-we-need-to-go-beyond-bbcs-nauseating-moralising-2137593.html

          Quote:

          The lessons we should draw from the BBC’s documentary on India’s Daughter are these: one, we have to develop a thick skin to their media machinations; two, we should focus on what we have to do to
          correct the injustices in our system and not be distracted by western
          moralising; and three, we have to develop our own sophisticated systems of giving it back to them in their own coin by developing long-term studies and capabilities to show up the west’s own hypocrisies.

          End quote.

          Finally, there is the principle in doing certain things that says don’t let the left hand know what the right hand is doing. So, what I’m doing is none of your business.

          • Satya says:

            Dude you have some serious issues with the west and I dont think that is healthy at all. You I am sure have had many opinions about how things are done in the west, wars that they have waged etc, you reserve the right to your opinions but dont expect them to have one? Have you ever lived outside of India? Do you really know what you are talking about the West or is this all theoratical knowledge sitting in India?

          • Arun says:

            This is knowledge from having lived in India and currently living in the US, and having learned a lot of the reality behind the facade. Twenty years ago, I might have been very sympathetic with your point of view, but reality intruded.

            Certainly everyone has a right to their opinion, I don’t understand why you are so upset that I oppose certain Western opinions or why you term it unhealthy.

          • Satya says:

            This is hilarious, you choose to live in the US but hate the society and culture as well? No culture is perfect, because there is nothing called perfect. Let us reverse roles for a second, if you walked into work and everybody at your work place had issues with Indian culture what would you call them, I know – I know, its a word that starts with R and ends with T aka RA**ST. So what your broad generalization and categorization of your views make you? There can’t be one rule for you and one for the others.

          • Arun says:

            Warning – this following is seriously off-topic regarding Dr. Satya’s article; but is a reply to “unhealthy to have serious issues with the West”. Here is Indian Aatish Taseer talking about fellow-Indian Arundhati Roy; I want you to read it and ask you whether it is an indefensible opinion or whether it is “unhealthy”. If it is neither, then what about all of Arundhati Roy’s intellectual equivalents in the West, why is seeing through their professions “unhealthy”?

            =====
            “Ida: Sorry! So, we’ve talked about Noon, we’ve talked about Pakistan and your father, what about India? You’ve said some pretty harsh things about a certain writer cum activists on the Left–no names!–who, we in the States, kind of like. She seems, in an environment of rapacious capitalism, to be a friend of the poor and marginalised. What possible objection could you have to her?

            Aatish: None except that I don’t think she’s a friend of the poor at all. She would like to doom them to a permanent state of picturesque poverty. They are beautiful to her–the poor–beautiful, benign and faceless. And that is exactly how she wants them to stay. Let me say also that it is not the poor who animate her politics. Oh, no! The people who get her into the streets are the new middle classes. This class, still among the most fragile in India, people who have newly emerged from the most dire conditions, are despicable to her. She mocks their clothes; their trouble with English; she hates their ambitions; when India wins the cricket and she sees them celebrating, her skin crawls; she wants, more than anything, to do these people down. And it is her overwhelming hatred of them that allows her to be a friend of movements that are seemingly far apart. The jihadists, the Maoists, the Kashmir movement, the anti-development people…they’re all her friends. Anyone who can prove a credible threat to the future of India is a friend of that woman. I would go so far as to say she has a prurient fascination with the enemies of India. And where do they love her? In Pakistan, and in the faculty rooms of Europe and America. No surprise there.

            Also, this business of pretending she’s a lone voice in the wilderness. What rubbish! At least have the good grace to admit that not one thing she says is provocative or new; it is perfectly banal. And we know how well the universities Europe and America reward this bogus cant!”

          • Satya says:

            Not sure what Arundhati Roy has anything to do with this discussion on your bigoted views on the west and even more twisted way of using that as a rationale for denying that there are problems for women in India and tackling them instead. Arundhati Roy doesn’t represent India for the westerners. She is a Psuedo Intellectual and appeases to that junta anywhere in the world including India.

          • Arun says:

            “Bigoted” means that I am not open to reason. But you have not displayed any reason. only some emotional cant words. You have no argument.

          • Satya says:

            Lol that is hilarious, bigoted doesn’t mean not open to reason, here is the definition “: a person who strongly and unfairly dislikes other people, ideas, etc. : a bigoted person; especially : a person who hates or refuses to accept the members of a particular group (such as a racial or religious group)” Let me summarize your argument so far, 1) I have seen behind the facade of the west and it is so much worse than India when it comes to treatment of women than India 2) because the west is bad they cannot make a documentary on India and make us look like idiots to the rest of the world 3) the main issue I have is not I’ll treatment of women but the fact that this documentary was made by a non Indian. Do you see how your views are bigoted now. I don’t like to label things and like to keep an open mind but very disappointed with your thinking and as a proud indian married to an australian living in the US I do feel that we need to be a more open society and thinking that what I have summarized in the points above regress it.

          • Arun says:

            And you can have the last word.

  8. Kannadiga says:

    The questions I am asking these days is
    why did Ms.Leslie Udwin not interview the Pakistani British citizens who for over a decade sexually assaulted British Girls, some as young as 10?
    Why did she not interview the predominantly white police force that covered up or ingored all the cases?
    Why she did not notice the difference in how both countries reacted ? While in India many men and women came out onto the streets and protested, a similar protest is not happening in Britan. I remember the day that happened, me and all my colleagues felt numb, we did not know how to react, it was just sick and disgusting. If we were a sick society as Ms.Udwin put it we would have just stayed home and blamed here for what happened to her, but we did not.
    And what kind of sick society covers up sexual assaults on underage girls for over a decade?
    Finally, if that day was painfull for all Indian citizens, we now have to put up with selfrighteous people calling our culture a rotten barrel.

  9. Rational_Human says:

    Bravo Dr. Bravo.

  10. K.Harapriya says:

    The irony is that around the same time as India’s daughter was released, another movie in the west was making much money. It was called Fifty shades of Grey, a movie where a man and younger women are involved in a sadomasochistic relationship. Talk about justifying rape. Ughh…. Disgusting. Yet it has so far made 500 million dollars. Shouldn’t Indians now start getting all preachy to the west and tell them off for their misogynistic culture??

  11. allaisa says:

    I think India is getting a bum rap by the media. I looked up the rape statistics around the world and in India it is something like 2 per 100K of population. This contrasts with 30 in the USA and mind boggling 60 in Sweden. Even if you assume only 10% of the rapes is reported in India and 100% of rapes is reported in the USA and Sweden (neither of the assumptions is true) still the rate of rapes in India is lower than either of these two ‘civilized’ countries. So what gives?

  12. Dr. MS says:

    While I agree the West can be ageist, sexist and thin obsessed…lets not forget that India has its own ageism where every woman above 40 or 50 is expected to behave like an old hag…without the right to look good, be sensual and not be called perpetually an auntie. I lived in the West far longer than Dr. Satya, and I returned to India with my Indian passport (which is truly unique). I was also married to a non-Indian. People like me are rare, and under appreciated in India and all over the world. While there are things to criticize about the West, particularly its thinness obsession, lets not go overboard and somehow celebrate the opposite of youth ageism: preaching to women above 50 or 60…as must do this, must do that, be like that or be like this…. That aspect of India I deplore.

    I even heard a Christian gay man in Chennai call women who tried to beautify themselves as aunties who are not being their age. This from a gay guy who would be considered a pervert by his church.

    In the US I had an African American colleague who had her second healthy kid at 52. My 61 year my Anglo American real estate agent looked trim, great and played one tough golf. A 70 year old female doctor I knew married a 50 year old man, and had a terrific plastic surgery that made her look elegant and classy (not just young and stretched). I assure you, Dr. Satya will be singing a different tune when she hits 40 or 50…and gets acculturated into the US. Some of the biggest consumers of plastic surgery in the US are NRIs (in the IT or computer industry) and India American women…and many below 40.

    Lets also get rid of Indian male obsession with “fairness and Anglo females”. It is all over and I see it in India…even as Indian men pretentiously claim to be truly truly Indian. Indian men in India are as colonized as Indian men elsewhere, and many Indian women conform to that there, here and everywhere

    I want to see more Indian women be themselves unapologetically, and live in a country where they can be themselves and be well admired and supported for it…even if that means doing Karate at 50, having a second marriage at 55 and doing bungee jumping at 60. India makes women feel old and Indian men are some of the most sexist when it comes to women above 40 or 50 or 60. In the US 60 is not old, but in India a woman is made to feel old and slowly has her sensuality, sexuality and every essence killed from the inside because she wants to be active and even date as a single woman.

    I dislike somethings that US does to women – refuses to let them be themselves. But I also deplore what India does to women – constantly defining them narrowly through a number prism that becomes a social prison. Full stop.

    • prashants5 . says:

      First you need to understand the basic differences between Western and Indian Social structure including Family structures and values. This is seriously lacks in your observations. The only thing I agree with you is the colonized part.

      • Dr. MS says:

        Here is a website on plastic surgery among Indians: http://www.shahfacialplastics.com/plasticsurgerybollywood.html

        Dr. Anil Shah (a plastic surgeon in the US) writes, “Women of South Asian descent are getting plastic surgery in record numbers. According to 2005 data from the American Society of Plastic Surgeons, Asian Americans had 437,000 cosmetic surgeries in 2005, a whopping 58 percent jump from the previous year. The most commonly requested procedure by Asian Americans is rhinoplasty (nose job).

        This number is probably double because that was 2005 number. I was told Gujarati and Telegu women have the maximum number of surgeries. I met Telegu women in Iowa who had had all kinds of surgeries….These women went straight from a village in AP, married some IT guy, and had surgeries while in the US. They all read Bollywood magazines and wanted to be like the actresses in those movie. In fact some of the most shallow women I met in Iowa were Indian women from India. And the men are no different. Half the guys have affairs, drink too much, beat their women or children or run after Anglo secretaries. They obsess about money and wealth…not innovation or entrepreneurship. It is like an old cliche of the AMC series Man Men.

        I left India in the early 80s,….and came back only a year ago. But the India today is unrecognizable. I met several young Indian relatives of mine who actually said, “after dating nightmares with several pretentious Indian women from India, who had had surgeries before marriage, they ended up marrying some nice Anglo women”. I guess these women’s bodies or minds scared the guys. My joke. (I married a nice Anglo man, an engineer in Silicon Valley while I was teaching at a university in the Bay Area, who unfortunately ended up with Huntington’s Disease, hence our divorce).

        I don’t think you guys know how bad and pretentious India is. A counselor told me that 50% of her middle class and upper class women are having affairs, or had affairs…while they all wear saree and mangalsutra and gossip about my divorce or my “marriage to a foreign man”. There is a lot of jealousy, pretentions, lies and mean spiritedness in many of these women and men, That is why they like to drag everybody down to their cheap level…it makes them feel good.

        Feminism is whole different issue in India. India is fundamentally a lot of screwed up Y and X chromosome, and the few like me, truly enlightened and highly educated, daring and honest,, we are a minority within a minority within a minority. I am the true minority in India and among Indians. It is scary.

        India is not a rape culture…but India has some of the most sexist men in the world, and Indian women are some of the biggest hypocrites in the world. I don’t belong to either of the categories.

        I actually find the academic environment in Singapore (where I gave a seminar recently) and Hong Kong so much more sophisticated, inclusive and balanced. It reminds of me of the US of the 70s, 80s and part of the 90s when there was true commitment to excellence, integrity, dare, diversity, innovation, creativity, discourse and challenge with fun and ethics. US is declining in this front (it is all cheap Wall Street culture), and India lost it centuries ago.

        Goddess help us, and me…

        • SrikanthNaidu says:

          Dr. M.S, It is with great anguish I have observed my friends both in India, US and other countries get on the ban-dwagon regarding the documentary. I agree with great many points you bring out. Growing up, I have noticed and been a witness to the following: Women being beaten routinely by their drunkard spouses, A guy who burnt his wife dead in a fight, went on to marry another women and lived happily in front of his former in laws (they were from the same street). I have seen policemen and cops routinely demand bribes even in a trip as recent as 2012 to Chennai. I have also seen these guys behave indecently with women (yes, married ones as well). I can go on listing the crimes that are committed day in and day out in Indian society of which are less severe in nature. But it does show a misogynistic mindset. I have also seen NRIs here who abuse their wives – treat them as their domestic slaves. I have often tried to encourage these women to get out of their marriages and but to my dismay find them living in those arrangements as they are afraid of what their “community” will say and think. I think Dr.Satya has lived a sheltered life, at least compared to the one I lived, in order for her to conclude that somehow western or US conception of women’s freedom is far worse than the Indian counterpart. I, for one, believe, and see from personal experiences of my near and dear ones, that Indian culture makes it a big taboo for people to speak up about domestic violence or sexual abuse. If I have to choose between posturing as a global leader (while hiding warts and all) and being an introspective honest progressive society, I would choose the latter. I see signs of that happening in the society I live, albeit not as much as I would like (all of us have much to improve on this front). With all this outpouring of emotion, we could have channeled this energy towards the problems itself. I applaud you for having the courage to speak up, in a community where you must feel very lonely, especially now when it is in the throes of self righteous hypocritical assertions.

          • Rational_Human says:

            And if you just look at the last year in the US- how many sports people, rappers, etc. publicly beat their wives to the point of unconsciousness? Forget virtual slavery, in Cleveland, there were people held in actual slavery just a few years ago. I won’t even mention the Church’s abuse of young boys for which the Bishops and the organization has not been held criminally liable! Indian cops may look for bribes, but how many have shot or strangled people with their hands raised.
            So before you keep attacking India, please look around you in the US. There are problems every where. And a coconut sees no problems in white society but only problems in the brown ones.

          • SrikanthNaidu says:

            Hi Rational_human
            None of us condone sadistic behavior – east or west. Nice to see you are very rational in calling me a coconut (to be clear a racial slur) ! 🙂 You have glossed over everything else I also said. I for one, have spoken up on these issues whether they happen in US or India.

            Dr.M.S,

            It is hard to disagree with many points and perspectives you have raised. However, I do have to add that the national philosophies (if there is such a thing) of US and India are so different. US believes for the most part in a capitalistic market economy (so the market forces they believe in attract and incentivize talent no matter which country they are from) vs India which has from what I recall or know has been mostly a spiritual (also sometimes fatalistic) philosophy. I respect and appreciate our Shad darshanas, aim to study it over my lifetime. I am at present focussed on learning Samskrtam – in order to read all these texts in the original. Having said that, no culture can claim monopoly over all that is best about human kind. I am NOT suggesting that you think or allude to that. I just wanted to add to what you were already saying.

            Regarding acceptance of divorce in your family – I actually 2- 3 relatives who remarried with one of them being a women who remarried into our family. That is the puzzle that is India. In Chennai specifically, I have seen a lot of open mindedness about issues – in fact, I feel Chennaiites are more open and less shallow than other cities in India (ok – I self declare and disclaim my bias as I am from there). It is my opinion that we do not have to put others down or look away from our faults in order to appreciate our culture. I think the contradictions will continue to exist and they should not (the good aspects) detract us from our focus on social issues. The one disagreement I have – is your claim regarding healthy families in India vs US. I dont think we can prove it beyond doubt without serious research. However, it is also true that in US I have seen so many friends of other races lead a balanced and conservative even (compared to europe) life. By any stretch, I would not describe them as unhealthy. Do they exist, sure they do! All I needed when I came to this country is to watch a single episode of Jerry Springer! Going back to national philosophies, I dont think US will ever look at the issue the way you would want them to see for a long long time. I was disappointed with the parting lecture the US president gave to Delhi audience few months ago! What India needs to do is to focus on creating an environment which disincentivizes or incentivizes talent to leave/stay in India.

          • Rational_Human says:

            At no point do I call you a coconut. I am merely describing a type of behaviour that those suffering from a racial inferiority complex who are blind to errors in white society. If your ability to see only the errors in India while ignoring the plurality of errors in America (many hidden for decades, a few made public) makes you feel it describes you, I can’t help your guilt.

            Unlike you, I don’t feel to write Balzacian responses to each and every niggling point that another has raised. None of us in India claim we have a perfect society. But we don’t need or want to be lectured by a white woman sanctimoniously using a rapist to falsely represent all Indian men.

          • Nabha Garjana says:

            bingo! what you have pointed out is because the elite educated Indians are still in the state of metal slavery of the white foreign people and can stand up for their own.

          • Dr. MS says:

            Thanks for writing Mr.Srikanth.

            America gains from all our talent pool…it is time they gave to India. And I felt more lonely in the US many times…than I do in India. In fact my relatives have been so loving, gracious and kind to me. And none of them have ever said anything negative about my divorce. They are also kind and gracious to my ex. In fact Mark is much more a Hindu than many Indian men, and he said to me once, “How lucky you are to be born to a country with such evolved philosophy”. Mark, my ex. is big follower of Vedanta and believes that meditation can help change one at a genetic level. He is doing hundred times better than his own mother, who died in an institution, because of Hindu philosophy and spiritual practices. Hopefully he’ll become a textbook case of a HD guy who survived beyond 60 with his CAG repeat.

            You make some interesting observations about DV among immigrants, and among certain sector of employees who face some unusual challenges…like the IT sector.

            I grew up sheltered, in fact very sheltered, but my training in social work exposed me to a part of India that many middle class and upper class people do not pay attention to. But then again…some problems are directly linked to poverty, disparity and centuries of oppression.

            Actually Tamilians by nature are very blunt, open and straightforward on social issues. It is very impressive how open working class Tamil women are now about domestic violence in their lives, abandonment, in-law problems, children problems. their husband’s drinking problem, etc. Wonderful that they are talking and sharing…I provide a lot of voluntary counseling in that front.

            But our research is horrible. All statistics are borrowed from the West. I asked one Indian DV activist…how she knows “one out of four Indian women are battered?”. She showed me research from the US. Ridiculous. We need more qualitative research from within India…and from the grassroots, on which we can build quantitative studies and get more accurate information.

            I had one very nice Muslim journalist ask me what is the religious conversion rate in India. Excellent question, and I did not know. When I asked for the information from public officials many people did not know. No research. This is ridiculous.

            I think there are more healthy families in India than in many parts of the West. In my own family over three generation of people over three blood lines (consisting of possibly over 3000 members) there is only four cases of divorce (me being one), two cases of drinking in excess and five children who did not finish BA or BSc. Think of what an achievement this is…and all without government support or quota or American handouts.

            We Indians do not compliment ourselves, and those who do well in spite of so many social and economic challenges.

            America gains from all our talent pool…it is time they gave to India.

            To have suffered so much poverty, colonialism, change, etc. and yet maintain one’s dignity and culture, is an achievement worth admiring…But India’s inner strength has to be preserved as we progress economically. There are too many people who want to bring Indians down…including some Indians themselves. And when confusion, identity-less-ness, internal conflict sets in….no amount of money can fix that inner void, darkness or anomie or abyss.

            We should never let that happen. It is time we take our wonderful familial customs or helpful domestic traditions to the public. So development occurs in the context of “clarity of the mind, comfort of true self awareness, courage with conviction and commitment to community welfare with intelligence”.

            America gains from all our talent pool…it is time they gave to India, beyond military weapons.

    • rahul says:

      Ma’am,
      The right to look sensual/enjoy oneself is not something that emerges naturally,without the help and support of society. A woman’s primary value is to produce children and help society increase in numbers abnd strengthen itself;all else even high academics/problem solving pales before this fundamental requirement. This is an evolutionary phenomenon as any society that allowed its women to indulge has simply not survived in to tell their tale. As a result,it is not in the interests of society,which permits you to enjoy a certain lifestyle to allow you a free rein in your actions. Appearing sensual beyond 40/50 and the resultant peccadilloes would drain either families of their wealth or young productive men in which case the said society takes a hit and weakens vis a vis other societies. The other activities you wish older women to do too are of an extremely frivolous nature and do nothing to strengthen our society and thence our collective survival,especially in a world exceedingly hostile to hindus and where the resources and odds are stacked overwhelmingly in favour of the whites and muslims. In addition the control and regulation of sexuality is of critical importance from the political standpoint, as social media is everywhere and people get more disoriented,attention deficit and easily swayed by enemy pied piers.

      As for the NRI techies,they are essentially butterflies with no civilizational worth,who will soon be absorbed into the slave classes of the whites or disposed off through other means;core hindus are still in india and most do not share their attitudes.

      • Dr. MS says:

        In the Samskaras when Markandayan’s parents were asked, “Do you want a splendid one child, good, intelligent, willing to learn, socially sensitive and of high values, or do you want 20 children?”. They answered “One”…not “twenty”!

        My grandmother had her last son when she was 45, my aunts had kids in their 40s. They were strong and healthy. And there are Indian women who have produced wonderful kids at 40 and 50…and there are teen mothers who produce drunks, lazy oafs, screwed up ,men, arrogant argumentative fools and men who drag India down.

        Who breeds and how is more important to me than when and how many.

        India does not need half of its damaged, wounded useless third rate men. 800,000,0000 are Hindus in India, or consider themselves to be. IN many ways Hindu fertility is an evolutionary disaster. Israel produces more smart innovators and inventors than India. Japan produces smarter robots than the lazy poorly educated rude incompetent arrogant aggressive male workers I meet in Tamil Nadu these days. What kind of a country have you created with so many people…mostly men?

        Half of India’s men are a burden to the country. They keep this country divided, corrupt, incompetent and drag women like me down. That is why you have useless people breeding useless people. Some worry that India is fast becoming “just being little better than the Taliban”. India also just got ranked 129 among 150 countries in world corruption-free table. All this breeding, population…and look at the standards around you.

        Most Hindu men in India are wounded damaged Y chromosomes. The smart ones got killed long ago, or migrated out.

        Who breeds and how is more important to me than when and how many.

        • rahul says:

          Sadly,you seem to be a classic case of how easily the whites can fool our supposedly smart and eduated families. Your narrative of most indian men being useless and young mothers being dumb in having children,and the supposed evolutionary disaster that is Bharata is a common one among white racists and other assorted maniacs. I have personally witnessed a case similar to yours,a brahmaNa stri,an mit phd in a hard subject make utterly ridiculous statements and make a complete fool of herself in public. Though outrageous it might be possible that certain impressionable minds are selected by the whites for recgnition and training and then sent back to influence foolish hindus.
          Your assertions betray an utter lack of understanding of what society is and how history has played out. If intellectuals can play their games and garner their reputations,it is on the backs of kisans and jawans who produce the surplus and are ready for violence as and when the situation demands. In western societies these commoners are sucked out dry and severely discouraged even to exist,as fake dreams of equality,free speech and sexual and other stimuli that they are constantly bombarded with consume most of their time. HIndus for all their faults have never indulged in such skullduggery and each jAti/family has a decent level of control over its genetic and oher resources. This is why we alone have faced and survuved against the combined might of everyone else though that is unravelling,not because of the unwashed useless masses but because of the foolishness,selfishness and comproises made by the so called elite jAtis

          who simply lack the idealism and energy to take the white head on in strength and intelligence except in a few extremely rare cases. Even in the much vaunted American indian academics,a cursory look at the work done betrays an imitative tendency and few real discoveries of any worth. Their worth is confirmed in the unsed and misued funds that the america returns consume in our supposedly elite institutions while loudly whining about bureaucracy,difficulty of indians etc.
          On the other hand,much humbler people with lesser pretentions/qualifications have been truly building india; though thei work migt not be cutting edge or make it to fancy journals,they are nevertheless building a base that is copletely owned by us and will help us in future struggles.
          Your commentls on the hindu laity are stupid;lay people just want to live their lives and so should you. The fact that some women gave birth ad later ages doesnt mean that most can;in addition,quality while necessary is overrated,as numbers matter moe than most care to admit. Ths is seen even in academis where most of the papers published are of a routine and unexceptional nature,which anyway decide reputations and tenures.

          • Dr. MS says:

            It all depends on which evolutionary biology theory you are following. I find a lot of Indians are kind of stuck on colonial research. England recently passed a bill to allow three parent genetic material in a birth of a child where defects are removed at the mitochondrial level by inserting a mtDNA from a donor parent…who only alters the child’s DNA by 1%. Hence the child shares 99% of the biological two parent (a mother and a father).

            Lots of amazing research are going on in biology, genetics and reproduction.

            It also existed in our history. Rishis had kids when they were 60 and 70 because they were healthy, and their wives were healthy so they could easily conceive at 40, 50 and 60. In fact one Punjabi conceived at 62 naturally in India.

            Get over your patriarchal obsession with age. I also think people, in this world as things are, should not have sex before 18 or 19, should not marry before 25 and should not have kids before 30. This is now being proven a healthy way to have a healthy society.

  13. dr.viraj pradhan says:

    Excellent article,Dr.Satya.An article appeared in the TOI,Mumbai edition-written by Ms.Shobhaa Dey and was very appropriate as well.She,as many of us had assumed,levels a charge that there was commercial interest that prompted production of this film.These criminals who are arguing in the court that the evidence is inadequate,have openly ( and suddenly) admitted and justified their actions.Is this possible without some fat remuneration?Our conviction rate is low and needs to improve and rapes must be prevented.No amount of severe punishment ever deterred these subhumans.Unfortunately,our own people,journalists included,talked about the general mindset of Indian men.That sends a wrong signal to the world.These people want to be seen as intellectuals and with the westerners.There are some people among us who want to launch awareness movement and work towards changing mindsets.As if we,who never raped,needed that.Rapists won’t pay heed to anything anyway.Our image as Indians has taken a slap,no doubt.Regards,

  14. Arun says:

    The Western negative portrayal of India is an ongoing enterprise, centuries old. The old jeremiads of the Christian missionaries in India from the 18th century are available on Google Books. One of the notable points along the way was Katherine Mayo’s “Mother India” which Mahatma Gandhi termed a gutter-inspector’s report. Leslee Udwin has joined that illustrious crowd. Dr. Satya has been kinder to Leslee Udwin that Gandhi was to Mayo.

    Anyway, the funniest thing to emerge in the context of this documentary was the BBC commentator termed as sexist and emblematic of India’s problems Arnab Goswami’s shouting down of some woman on his show (it might have been Leslee Udwin herself). Little do they know that Arnab Goswami is the most equal opportunity shouter-downer; men and women alike have difficulty speaking on his show. Had he let up on women, now that would be sexist.

    • Satya says:

      It would be a shame if one were to go easier on Udwin than Mayo. After all, Udwin went one up on Mayo. Not only did she inspect the drain, she interviewed the scum.

      And for this reason alone, I depart from most other commentators in supporting the Indian government’s opposition to airing this documentary. GOI has a legitimate interest in deterring crime. Rewarding criminals with a feature role in an international documentary is a shameful thing the BBC has done and a good enough reason, IMO, to block this film. Furthermore, no one should be allowed to commercially profit from a crime. Whatever profits Udwin, BBC, or anyone else have made from this sordid endeavor ought rightfully to be turned over to the parents of the victim.

      While one may not be able to quantitate the PR benefit Ms. Pinto and Ms. Streep have accumulated because of their endorsement of this “cause”, let’s hope they’ll have conscience enough to think about this as well…

      • Satya says:

        PS see Ian Jack’s recent editorial in the guardian. The British have yet to see anything wrong with Mayo’s report (which of course was held up as a reason to deny India independence). Now they hail Udwin as a new incarnation of Mayo.

  15. Rape Free India says:

    The key point on the “India’s Daughter” farce is that the BBC is easily proved as using it for propaganda purposes rather than to really help reduce rape. Why?

    Because the same BBC BANNED the showing of a documentary on Jimmy Saville and co,, who WORKED for the BBC for decades, during which he raped countless numbers of children. Thus if the BBC really wished to reduce rape they would also have aired a documentary on its own rape (of children) problem.

    Finally, nowhere on the BBC do we find a documentary on the Westminster Pedophile Network that has plagued England for decades. Here we have a situation where UK Parliament members are known to have engaged in the rape of children, yet NO ONE in England is even talking about it, let alone protesting the matter.

    • Romeolima says:

      It’s not ‘Known’. It’s alleged and not even formalised into charges let alone gone to trial. When or if it does it will be under Sub Judice (का हिंदी मतलब जाने) reporting restrictions until a verdict has been reached and then, and only then, there will be all the coverage you could want as the media vents its fury on the hypocrites who seek to control it when they have something to hide.

      • BBC are Hypocrites says:

        Err of course it is “known”, as admitted by Tim Fortescue. And your justice system is a sham. For readers who do not know, England has a system whereby they serve “D Notices” to newspapers who wish to publish items deemed to be “against national security.” Well many D Notices have been passed against journalists from reporting news about UK Politician Pedophiles, in the name of “national security” lol.

        And these English pontificate about Indians. They have no spirit against their depraved rulers, they just keep voting them in. In India you see passionate protests after recent gangrapes, in England they just pontificate about Indians but look the other way from their own children being violated.

        AND, Romeolina, a lot of people are suspicious that the Government is continuing to try and cover up the crimes:

        1. Amnesty International
        http://www.amnesty.org.uk/press-releases/kincora-exclusion-uk-abuse-inquiry-%E2%80%98missed-opportunity%E2%80%99
        Amnesty International has branded a statement from Home Secretary this
        morning, which excludes Kincora Boys’ Home from the UK child abuse
        inquiry, as a “missed opportunity” for truth. The organisation said
        Theresa May “risks looking like she is now playing her part in a
        decades-long cover-up”.

        2. Simon Dunczak MP
        http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2984529/Cabinet-office-child-abuse-cover-MoS-beats-attempt-No10-gag-VIP-file-shows-Thatcher-knew-paedophile-MP-Cyril-Smith.html

        Labour MP Simon Danczuk, who exposed the scale of Smith’s abuse in Parliament, said: ‘Nick Clegg and David Cameron have colluded in covering this up. It involves their people and we should not have to learn about this piecemeal because of journalists pestering for information.
        ‘Both men need to come clean and make a personal commitment to revealing everything that is now held by Government departments.
        ‘The Prime Minister promised there would be no stone unturned into the inquiry of historic sex abuse in Westminster. But the Cabinet Office seems to be doing the opposite.

        • Romeolima says:

          Evidently you are very behind on the News. Yesterday a BBC programme, Newsnight, revealed the results of its investigation into the allegations. It’s all over the papers, Radio and TV. D Notices have been served since Barbara Castle tried to expose the abuse in 1984 and her file was confiscated from a journalist, Don Hale. You write as if the UK is doing nothing. This is a massive scandal and heads will roll. As to protests, I don’t think you are aware of the system in the UK. To protest in numbers you need permission and a properly organised rally. This is to prevent mob violence against anyone by people who have been whipped up into a frenzy without having any accurate information. We don’t have lynch mobs in the UK. You can try to pretend this is all being swept under the carpet but as it is on the front page of every Newspaper and is the lead story of every Radio and TV News programme, LED by the BBC, it is unlikely that you will achieve the uncontrolled mob that you seem so keen to unleash on Parliament for offences that took place over 30 years ago. What is your agenda ?

          • Only the BBC has an Agenda says:

            ” You write as if the UK is doing nothing”

            LOL. As you are aware by now, there is documentation of this going on in UK Elite circles for decades. Look at the video of Fortescue again as an example, since he was around in the 1960s. So this latest half-hearted (as indicated in the article where Danczuk expressed his belief that Cameron and Clegg are covering it up once more) inquiry is not much of anything, in comparison to the decades of children raped (and killed), and the long standing suffering of the survivors of the abuse, and the families whose children disappeared. The UK has thus essentially done nothing against these crimes that were common – yet not public – knowledge.

            Now, closer to recent times, we find attempts at placing an Establishment figure to actually chair the investigation – a clear sign that the English Elite want this covered up. Readers should look up the names of Elizabeth Butler-Sloss and Fiona Woolf. The former is a sibling of the Attorney General in the 1980’s (establishment) who was accused of covering up “Sir” Peter Hayman, the Intelligence Chief’s, involvement in child rape. Butler-Sloss had to resign once this was revealed….but then the English Establishment – who have yet to be punished by their own citizens for this attempt at continuing the cover-up – decided to try again! Up came Fiona Woolf, who is utterly, utterly, a part of the Elite Anglo-Saxon Establishment. She is Lord Mayor of London and, most importantly, was close friends with Leon Brittan, primary accused in the child rape depravities. So twice have the Elite Anglo-Saxons, of whom the BBC Editors hobnob with, tried to cover-up this decades long child rape and murder habit.

            Finally, when they realized it was going to be too much, they’ve allowed for a New Zealander. The problem that Romeolina failed to comment on, is contained in the Amnesty International link, which shows that the MI5/MI6 are going to be off limits. This shows that the English are not truly interested in justice, because otherwise they would look into the behavior of their own intelligence officers in Kincora, which for those who don’t know, was a boarding school in Northern Ireland that was frequented by child rapists, and that – per Amnesty International – “UK security services used vulnerable boys as nothing more than sexual bait in a blackmail trap”. The English do not want the depraved nature of its elite to be punished, therefore Kincora is off the list and other documentation is being met with inertia, as mentioned in the link outlining Dunzcak’s comments.

            “You can try to pretend this is all being swept under the carpet but as it is on the front page of every Newspaper and is the lead story of every Radio and TV News programme, LED by the BBC”

            It’s not really on every front page though. I check The Guardian everyday, and it is simply not there (the front page). Only the Mirror and Exaronews put it on the front page. Stop lying as anyone can check UK Newspapers.

            “To protest in numbers you need permission and a properly organised rally. This is to prevent mob violence against anyone by people who have been whipped up into a frenzy without having any accurate information. We don’t have lynch mobs in the UK.”

            LOL, the old Anglo-Saxon sanctimony is emerging. Do you think people have forgotten about say, the 2011 UK riots? There is plenty more where that came from. Google Richard Mannington Bowes for a lynch mob death in that riot.

            ” it is unlikely that you will achieve the uncontrolled mob that you seem so keen to unleash on Parliament for offences that took place over 30 years ago”

            I absolutely expect no such mob, because modern England doesn’t have what it takes to for mob action against the Elite. They only perform mob violence against themselves. Modern English are subservient to their elite, for decades it appears.

            “This is a massive scandal and heads will roll.”

            Perhaps, but my guess is that the Establishment will figure out a way out of it – probably by playing the long game and dragging it out for years to induce fatigue and indifference in the public. We will see, because if the Jimmy Savile scandal is anything to go by, the only heads that rolled at your precious BBC are the ones who exposed him.

            http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/mar/08/bbc-whistleblowers-jimmy-savile

          • Only the BBC has an Agenda says:

            Kincora – not a boarding school; it was a boys home.

          • Romeolima says:

            You are so wrong on every count and just being anti British won’t cut it. The online versions of UK papers are not always carrying the same headlines as print versions. You appear to want riots such as those in 2011, not demonstrations. When you have the smallest modicum of 2015 reality instead of harking back decades (Kincora was 35 years ago and is being investigated again now) your opinions might hold some weight. Until then you are just being ridiculous. Why don’t you just call us all Crusaders and have done with it ?

          • The Epidemic is in Westminster says:

            Romeolina TheGuardian TODAY has published an article where the UK media is being accused of covering up Cyril Smith’s and others, crimes, for THIRTYSIX years. Please click on the link

            Our Cyril Smith story came out in 1979. What followed was a 36-year cover-up
            http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/mar/18/cyril-smith-36-year-cover-up-child-abuse-conspired-fail-victims

            Look at one statement of his: “Earlier this week the BBC “discovered” the story for the first time. Lots of harrumphing, hand-wringing, outrage and angst poured over a story that it has sat on for decades.”

            He is not impressed by the BBC, and neither am I, for the double reason that they’ve been able to publish highly biased and slanted “documentaries” on India, such as “India’s Daughter”, whereas they sit, for THIRTYSIX years, on probably the scandal of the last 50-60 years.

            Now, Romeolina, lets examine the disturbing possibility that you do not wish to think about: The fact that, since they’ve gotten away with it so far without punishment, the Elite might still be engaging in such depravities.

            To be fair to you, I’ll use an Indian example: If the gang rapists – and other such types – are not punished quickly and stringently, it will make it more likelier that such crimes will persist within India.

          • Romeolima says:

            Oh do grow up.

  16. Vinayak says:

    What an irony. Your article is just like the dentist’s question? You have already made up your mind. It only concludes what has already presupposed. There is no scope for a debate. There is nothing to learn. In fact, there is less than nothing to learn. You take isolated examples and present them as conclusive proof of your points. You write the article as if respect for women in India is more than that in the West. This is laughable.

    • Raj Prabhakar says:

      Vinayak
      Sir I will say very emphatically that respect for women and love and dignity endowed on Indian women is much more and they validated in more then one that is being ‘just a woman’. They are revered as mothers, They receive very sentimental love as sisters and daughters. And of course she is sahadharmini as a wife. Mnay men I know address their wives as Rani -queen. Of course I could go on with the well known facts about women’s voting rights etc.

    • prashants5 . says:

      >> You write the article as if respect for women in India is more than that in the West. This is laughable.

      Yes of course it is!

      It looks like you haven’t lived in West enough or studied and experienced the Western culture and society other than imagining about it what it shows in Paid media and Indian TV Channels. For example, in USA, the women receives lesser pay ( 23% less ) than their counter male part for the same position. The reason is, they are considered inferior and hence less performer at Job compared to their counter male part. Have you heard about this in India? India’s salary structure is based on position not gender. Read what the whitehouse talks about it.

      https://www.whitehouse.gov/equal-pay/career

      USA is world’s most Rapist Country. Per million rape ranking is 14 where as India’s rank is 92 and Canada is 94. The educated male society in general in USA considers women as piece of meat. I can go on and on but for you just this much. India has it’s own problems which it needs to address but your comment is completely out of ignorance and arrogance.

      Make your own study and research before you laugh at others and don’t conclude about India just because of some isolated cases. Otherwise everybody will laugh at your ignorance ( “Murkhata”)!

      • dr.viraj pradhan says:

        And we are dubbed the rape capital of the world.It is no consolation,but we are 4th behind the U.S,South Africa and Sweden.Then after us appears U.K.

        • prashants5 . says:

          That 4th behind the US, SA, Sweden doesn’t make much sense. Because you haven’t taken the population factor into account. That is why I mentioned per million rape cases which makes the statistical comparison better. This way you can exactly make your own inference.

      • Vinayak says:

        While you point out the problems in the west, you conveniently ignore the status of Indian women on the same issues. Reg pay equality, the situation in India is much worse. Please read – http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_inequality_in_India#Labor_participation_and_wages and also http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Unequal-pay-for-equal-work-dogs-working-women-in-India-Study/articleshow/7659619.cms

        For your convenience, I quote from the second link –

        “According to the Annual Survey of Industries of 2004-05 the gender pay gap for regular workers in the formal or organized sector was 57%, which is much higher than among casual workers in the formal sector which was over 35-37%. And in agriculture, where an estimated 60% of all operations are handled exclusively by women, the hourly wage rates vary from 50 to 75% of male rates.

        In case you thought the gender gap is restricted to the lower levels of workers, a survey done by the World Economic Forum (WEF) last year showed that there is a yawning gender gap in the corporate sector too. The average annual income of a woman is $1,185, less than a third of a man’s $3,698 in corporate India.”

        Regarding rape you ignore the fact that the vast majority of rape cases in India go unreported because it is a huge social stigma. Add these unreported cases and then compare the ranks. It is estimated that more than 90% of rape cases go unreported. Please read – http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/The+iceberg+of+rape/1/46911.html

        You say that the “West is no match with India in terms of Family values, Respect for Women or morality. They are rather studying and learning seriously about India on these aspects”, but this is all lip service. It turns out that Indian men spend the LEAST amount of time IN THE WORLD helping out with housework. Please read – http://blogs.wsj.com/indiarealtime/2014/10/29/gender-chore-gap-where-housework-is-most-unfair/

        It is easy to talk high sounding bullshit about our culture and ‘sanskriti’ but unfortunately it does not translate to action on the ground.

  17. Raj Prabhakar says:

    Satya ji”
    Correction for spelling your name

  18. Jaya says:

    Kudos for writing such a brilliant article!! We absolutely need to get our house in order.

    What we definitely do not need is lectures from cultures which:

    a. Do not have the solution to the problem. If they do have the solution then they need to apply it and demonstrate that the solution works.
    b. Resources need to be applied by these people much closer to their own homes – especially in UK where BBC itself has 850 cases of sexual harassment, UK has one of the highest rape densities in the world.

    What is worse than such a ghastly incidence is the use of the incidence for commercial and political purposes. Commercial – by Leslie Udwin – licensed the film to multiple TV channels for monetary considerations, and political – possibly as an attack on Indian culture as a whole – since she is on record sayign that the whole culture is sick !!

    • dr.viraj pradhan says:

      They have made film on the Rotherham exploitation of young orphaned British girls only because the perpetrators were predominantly of Pakistani origin.Will they ever make films on their own youngsters who enjoy (?) themselves in the most disgusting manner at Megaluf?Just watch You Tube videos on Megaluf and one Emily Gaythwaite’s adventures there.

      Our conviction rate has to go up and some preventive measures need to be evolved.Severe punishment has failed to deter these rascals.

      If you are not from Mumbai,I do not know how you will read an excellent article by Shobhaa Dey on this film.This has appeared today.If all editions of TOI have published the same ,then you must have.

  19. Raj Prabhakar says:

    Stya ji :
    Very well written article. I would like to share some of my experiences on this issue also. Many years back when I came to an Ivy League University to USA the usual questions about India were: 1.position of women they are backward and have no freedom. My response: We have a women Prime minister do you? We have many women in managerial posirions and medical and law field. About the freedom what was labeled as freedom I perceived it as lack of protection and guidance. Very young girls were becoming prgnant . There was lot of pressure to find a husband and to accomplish that many compromises were required and the never ending agony of competing and looking prtty or prttier. The usual sight in the restaurants was women waitresses serving coffe and invariably the middle aged fat guys pinching them and making some off color jokes, no dignity, no honour. So is that freedom? Talking about the wholesale brain washing of the nation, standard questions from highly educated professors to the janitors or young school chidren were: 1. Is it true that the cow is sacred for Hindus? My reply : not only cow but Everything is sacred to us and all life forms are to be respected. Even when we pluck some floweres we request permission from the plant and thank it for the flowers. We were not supposed to pluck flowers after the sunset,as my grand mother instructed us, the plants are resting now. By the way flowers are mostly used for prayers and worsship. 2. You have a cast system? My response yes but you also have a caste system. Here it is more obvious with the blacks and the whites and the hispanics and all others living in separate areas, going to separate churches. When I came the yellow pages of the telephone directory will specify that. Some of my classmates would invite me to their church for the Sunday service, with the agenda of saving my soul though but a black person , a citizen of this country could not attend the same church. 3. Regarding my Indian outfit saree the usual comment ‘ Oh its a gorgeous out fit, pause, when will you start wearing regular clothes’. Regarding my food preferences and vegetarianism the response was ‘when will you start eating regular food? Of course I am talking about the early sixties period regarding food. They would always ask ‘ if you donot eat meat what do you eat? Excuse me for digressing a little here.
    Talking about validation as a woman let me share of my experiences. I am seriously looking for a female ob/gyno doctor in mid western USA. I could not find a single one. When I asked some of my women classmates their usual response was ‘ Oh I would not trust my body to a woman’. While in India I knew a lot of women doctors. Satya ji this is also in the early sixties.
    Back to being a woman here and a woman in India. Growing up in Punjab India little girls were offered special worship twice a year, spring and fall season as manifestation of the Divine feminine power known as Durga Ashtami. We were invited in the neighborhood and special worship was offerd by washing our feet putting a red mark on the forehead and serving some exotic food, some money and flowers. This was our DAY! We were the little manifestation of the Divine Shakti- power In case the cleaning woman did not show up and I offered to help with the washing the dishes my grand mother wil not allow me to touch the dirty dishes because of her respect for the Divine Mother in the little grand daughter.. The boys of the family were supposed to touch the feet of the elders to greet them but not the girls for the same reasons. We were encouraged to play more the roles of nurturing mothers then sighing and vying for thr right weight and figure.
    I will share two more instances and then stop :-). My second grade daughter comes home from school and says that she told Cathy- her classmate- that my mom says that I can be anything I want to be. But Cathy says that her mom told her that because she was a girl she can be a nurse or a teacher only. So my daughter wanted a re confirmation from the mother one more time. By the way this daughter has held some great positions as the first women and also the first Asian in her profession. Another story how we are brought up in the two different cultures. For us in India all the boys in the neighborhood were like brothers. A. friend’s brother was my brother also. Well fast forwad to USA. One hot afternoon a little girl about 3 years old from the neighborhood comes to our front door with lots of lipstick, make up, mother’s jewellry and mother’s high heels sneaking out while mother is taking a nap. I compliment her for looking pretty :-). She brushes me aside enquiring ‘where is your little boy? I have come here to look pretty to him! My little boy at that time is a pre schooler taking his mid day nap! I feel the we in India are nurtured and brought up to seek validation from within. I know I was. But here women tend to seek validation from others-read men- thus the endless grief and agony about the proper figure and looks and so on and so forth and this goes on even at advanced age. No rest or relief or retirement from trying to be accepted and validated.

  20. SB says:

    I’m rather disappointed with this article – we cannot erase our problems by pointing out those in the West. Yes, when I’m in the US, I feel the need the wear makeup to be ‘presentable’ and the beauty standard here is oppressive, but it’s also oppressive to not be able to walk out of my house in India wearing a tank top. Violence against women takes many forms, and it is a disservice to our gender to either ignore these problems, or relegate them to the ‘bad parts’ of society, when in fact it is being propagated by people all around us. Perhaps you lived an idyllic life in India, but that was certainly not my experience, nor do I think it is typical.

    Obviously India’s Daughter has all sorts of things wrong with it, but I see no benefit in undermining the very real struggle that Indian women, feminists and activists are facing every single day.

  21. Aparna says:

    Kudos Dr Satya for such a lovely article. In fact the Western idea of beauty is so feudal where there is huge pressure on the woman to look young forever…just as you said. Ironically, rather predictably, our our libs here have no problems with that mindset. But find huge problems in the mindset of some twisted Indian males, who we anyway never endorse. Loved reading this article. Hope to read more such articles from you. Best Regards

  22. sp says:

    Stereotyping is what west does best. All others who are not like me are to be categorically put into a box. Once they are defined I can play the box anyway I want no matter feelings or implications

  23. Raghu Bhi says:

    Best regards for giving voice to my thoughts.

  24. Mz says:

    Lovely piece. Thanks for the article.

  25. mayur says:

    outstanding.. it is rare to come across an article that is written with such cool articulation while not letting the passion and the anger get lost.. shame on the moron who asked you that question in first place.. perhaps you should have asked her how is the conservative West coming along on the issue of abortions/contraception or the big bang theory these days..Kudos Sister !!

    • Satya says:

      Mayur – The interesting thing is the person who asked that question is actually quite sweet, knows plenty of Indians and has developed an interest in (for example) in old Hindi film song lyrics. She’s personable, intelligent and I’ve enjoyed great conversations with her. I actually like her! It’s critical to realize that these sorts of questions we encounter as Indians living in the West come from nice, well-meaning people. The problem is not that people in the West are bigots (although these exist in every society, East and West). The real problem is people in the West don’t have a *way* of understanding other cultures. The West does a lot of things right. (If it didn’t, why would so many of us live here). But one thing it lacks are the *tools* to understand other cultures. And this has unfortunately been at the root of many a tragedy in human history.

      And I agree that, if we are to blame Indian culture for the existence of crimes like rape, it’s fair enough to ask how well other cultures have solved them.

      Thanks for the kind words,
      Satya

      • prashants5 . says:

        The article is outsanding because it seems not a paid article. The main-stream media is controlled and dictated by Secular and Breaking India forces. We can expect a fair and un-biased article from someone’s mind when one’s intention and intellect is not lured with money. However I disagree with you when you said

        >> The real problem is people in the West don’t have a *way* of understanding other cultures. But one thing it lacks are the *tools* to understand other cultures.

        Thats not correct! I would strongly recommend you reading the book “Invading the Sacred”. They have the necessary ways and tools to read and understand other cultures but those tools and ways are mostly designed and provided by Western Scholars. These scholars view India and Indians from their infected western lenses. For example, Ralph Graffith, the popular English translator of Veda, where he proved how low-standard his translation work is and how he managed to adulterate the Veda. Same is another present days western scholar Sheldon Pollock who is known for Mis-interpreting Sanskrit and associating and blaming Sanskrit as a tool to suppress the lower castes and women in India. He is basically an Anti-India Scholars who have been promoted everywhere sadly in India too by some Westernized Indian Scholars.

        Here is some possible solution to make things litter better:

        1. Indian must understand and interpret their Ancient Text correctly and their Civilization. This will happen when it becomes part of our School curriculum where we take our Ancient civilization seriously.
        2. Indian must protect their ancient Intellectual Properties.
        3. India must produce at least 3 times more number of Scholars than the entire West for studying Indology. This way we can provide the right ways and tools to the West to understand our culture and civilization. I am glad that people like Rajiv Malhotra in USA and people who are behind this website fall in this category.
        4. Indian Scholars also must study the West from their Dharmic Tradtiona point of view and produce enough Scholarly work and books. This is called “Purva Paksha” as coined by Rajiv Malhotra. That is “Reversing the Gaze”.

Leave a comment